D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

Ancalagon · Mar 23, 2018

Cap'n Kobold said:
Bear in mind that the actual historical longsword would be covered by 5e's Greatsword category. (Its on the light end of the range and uses more thrusting, but its definitely a two-handed weapon.)

I *completely* disagree, and I will explain to you why.

Can a human use a greatsword, in D&D, with one hand? No. It cannot be done. A gm might allow it with a great penalty, but it's horrible. This does *not* correspond to a historical longsword, where you could do this! It was *better* with 2 hands (and look at that, the damage goes up from 1d8 to 1d10...) but it was quite usable one handed.

What historical sword that is very poor used one handed? The zweihander. Large claymores. The Zhanmadao (tentatively, I am less familiar with that one). THOSE are D&D 2 handed swords, not the longsword.

Coroc · Mar 23, 2018

[MENTION=23]Ancalagon[/MENTION] #150 .... except it is not.

Still most people think of it as a rapier blade with a Knight sword hilt of a 1.5 hander / Bastard sword or as an arming sword.

A Long sword historically is a designated 2 handed weapon of approx 1m20 (4ft) bladelength with a hilt to accomodate 2 Hands. It has good slashing and in most cases sufficient piercing cpabilities. It is used in 1 Hand only in emergency situations or Special applications, as e.g.

getting injured on 1 arm

grappling

prolonging the reach for a lunging strike

having to grab for a shield because of incoming arrows/spears / bolts

riding down fleeing enemies (needing 1 Hand on the reigns)

jaelis · Mar 23, 2018

Eh. What they called a longsword in the middle ages doesn't matter much to me. Gygax defined the dnd longsword in (I guess) 1974 and that's what we use today.

If I were going to get uptight about historical usage, I'd focus more on armor.

Ancalagon · Mar 23, 2018

Hriston said:
The term longsword typically refers to hilt length. I.e., the grip is long enough to get two hands on it (or at least a hand and a half). Because of this, I reject the idea that the versatile property of the D&D longsword is intended to represent the use of half-swording technique with an otherwise one-handed weapon, like an arming sword, for example. YMMV.

I agree with this, the hilt is critical

Coroc · Mar 23, 2018

[MENTION=60210]jaelis[/MENTION] except Gygax did not define the Longsword other than with its stats though and the case is resolved really easy: introduce a arming sword / side sword / broadsword aka sword which is 1 handed only and does 1d8 slashing. And no it does not Need to have Finesse, but it will not hurt the game Balance if you allow it.
Of course your elves or rogues get proficiency with it.
Keep the longsword as it is and rename it bastard sword.
Rename Great sword as Long sword.
That way you are historically accurate and did not hurt anything in terms of game balance or availability.

I really agree on armor though: There ain't no such thing like leather armor, especially studded leather armor, and ring mail is not a thing to exist.

There was an armor called Cuirboulis or so which was hardened by oil cooking, very thick breastplate made of leather, but your nowadays Heavy metal / Gothic / BDSM Outfit is just fashion Accessoire, which got nothing to do with armor and will never work as such. In fact studding your leather jacket might even increase your chance of injury especially when dealing with blunt weapons.

Ancalagon · Mar 23, 2018

Coroc said:
[MENTION=23]Ancalagon[/MENTION] #150 .... except it is not.

Still most people think of it as a rapier blade with a Knight sword hilt of a 1.5 hander / Bastard sword or as an arming sword.

A Long sword historically is a designated 2 handed weapon of approx 1m20 (4ft) bladelength with a hilt to accomodate 2 Hands. It has good slashing and in most cases sufficient piercing cpabilities. It is used in 1 Hand only in emergency situations or Special applications, as e.g.

getting injured on 1 arm

grappling

prolonging the reach for a lunging strike

having to grab for a shield because of incoming arrows/spears / bolts

riding down fleeing enemies (needing 1 Hand on the reigns)

That blade length seems excessive to me. Will come back with data.

Ancalagon · Mar 23, 2018

Coroc said:
[MENTION=60210]jaelis[/MENTION] except Gygax did not define the Longsword other than with its stats though and the case is resolved really easy: introduce a arming sword / side sword / broadsword aka sword which is 1 handed only and does 1d8 slashing. And no it does not Need to have Finesse, but it will not hurt the game Balance if you allow it.
Of course your elves or rogues get proficiency with it.
Keep the longsword as it is and rename it bastard sword.
Rename Great sword as Long sword.
That way you are historically accurate and did not hurt anything in terms of game balance or availability.

I really agree on armor though: There ain't no such thing like leather armor, especially studded leather armor, and ring mail is not a thing to exist.

There was an armor called Cuirboulis or so which was hardened by oil cooking, very thick breastplate made of leather, but your nowadays Heavy metal / Gothic / BDSM Outfit is just fashion Accessoire, which got nothing to do with armor and will never work as such. In fact studding your leather jacket might even increase your chance of injury especially when dealing with blunt weapons.

Oh armor is a total mess, but it should be another thread

jaelis · Mar 23, 2018

Coroc said:
[MENTION=60210]jaelis[/MENTION] except Gygax did not define the Longsword other than with its stats

Hmm...

And he gives a weight of 6 lbs.

Cap'n Kobold · Mar 23, 2018

Ancalagon said:
.... misnamed *why*? Finally in 5e the word longsword is used for a weapon which matches the historical weapon.

I don't believe so. The historical longsword is a dedicated two-handed weapon. There are some techniques that involve taking a hand off the hilt while executing them, but it could not be effectively wielded with a single hand.

I try to be careful when talking about longswords to make the distinction between "5e D&D longsword" and "historical longsword" for this reason.

Kobold Avenger · Mar 23, 2018

Thinking of fictional characters, Geralt is someone who definitely uses Longswords and most weapons you got in the games were Longswords.

On a totally unrelated note because of the Witcher games, I argue you don't need to drop or sheath a weapon even if it's 2-handed to cast a spell using one hand.

D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

Coroc

Hero

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

Coroc

Hero

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

Cap'n Kobold

Hero

Kobold Avenger

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