D&D General What is the Ranger to you?

Celebrim said:

Paladin.

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There was a 1st edition adventure based on The Mines of Moria published in White Dwarf round about 1982. They made Aragorn a multiclassed Ranger/Paladin (allowed because of his unique heritage) and Gandalf a cleric.

Paul Farquhar said:

There was a 1st edition adventure based on The Mines of Moria published in White Dwarf round about 1982. They made Aragorn a multiclassed Ranger/Paladin (allowed because of his unique heritage) and Gandalf a cleric.

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Reasonable.

In 1982, I'm not sure that it was published yet, but my 1e AD&D version of Gandalf is to stat him like an Agathion in human form and with the additional ability to cast spells as a 6th level M-U. It fits pretty closely, right down to his luminescent elf-life form in his natural state.

Charlaquin said:

Yeah, but he does that by using athelas boiled in water. That’s not spellcasting, that’s proficiency with an herbalism Kit.

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Maybe? Or is it a spell with a particular material component?
In the Houses of Healing, his healing skills seem more than mere craft.
"For Aragorn's face grew grey with weariness; and ever and anon he called the name of Faramir, bue each time more faintly to their hearing, as if Aragorn himself was removed from them, and walked afar in some dark vale, calling for one that was lost."

And while after that, the athelas is restoring, Aragorn tells Bergil that the worst is already over - pretty much thanks to what he has already done. That's not just herbalism.

Charlaquin said:

Yeah, but it does work that way in D&D. I would expect a D&D representation of Gandalf to cast spells, but not a D&D representation of Aragorn.

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It's a question of interpretation of one art into another art - literature into game. There is no objectively correct way to do it as long as it works OK within the game that is ultimately produced. Some people like to interpret Aragorn's healing ability as a paladin's laying on of hands. That one has never worked for me since it never seems to be based on a special power no one else has or can have. While Ioreth may think it's a prophetic indicator, the suggestion is that he learned it at Imladris and that the sons of Elrond are pretty good at healing as well - as makes sense for the kids of Middle Earth's most reknowned healer.

I know that Tolkien is drawing on the idea of a king having the power to heal via their divine right with Ioreth's prophecy - but the way I see it, a wise and benevolent king is a healer because he learns to be one to serve his people. That's what marks Aragorn as the true king rather than the asshats that ruled Numenor in its later days.

billd91 said:

Maybe? Or is it a spell with a particular material component?
In the Houses of Healing, his healing skills seem more than mere craft.
"For Aragorn's face grew grey with weariness; and ever and anon he called the name of Faramir, bue each time more faintly to their hearing, as if Aragorn himself was removed from them, and walked afar in some dark vale, calling for one that was lost."

And while after that, the athelas is restoring, Aragorn tells Bergil that the worst is already over - pretty much thanks to what he has already done. That's not just herbalism.

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I’m pretty sure it’s intentionally ambiguous. I like that about magic in middle earth, it’s subtle, and can almost always be read either as truly magical, or as mundane practice performed ritualistically. Terms like “spells” are used, but almost always to describe magic employed by other peoples, poorly understood by the observer who would call it a spell. What Sam might consider weaving magic into the elven rope, the elves themselves would probably just see as making good rope. It’s a very cool way for magic to work in a fantasy setting. But it doesn’t make me think “this character would need spellcasting to work in D&D.” The only characters I would think that about are Maiar.

billd91 said:

It's a question of interpretation of one art into another art - literature into game. There is no objectively correct way to do it as long as it works OK within the game that is ultimately produced. Some people like to interpret Aragorn's healing ability as a paladin's laying on of hands. That one has never worked for me since it never seems to be based on a special power no one else has or can have. While Ioreth may think it's a prophetic indicator, the suggestion is that he learned it at Imladris and that the sons of Elrond are pretty good at healing as well - as makes sense for the kids of Middle Earth's most reknowned healer.

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Fair enough, I guess. It’s just weird to me that the thought process is so common that rangers are supposed to be like Aragorn, Aragorn is good at healing in ways that are probably not entirely mundane, therefore rangers need to have spellcasting. I agree with those who have observed that this smacks of “non-casters aren’t allowed to do cool things.”

CapnZapp said:

Yeah, Aragorn is obviously a Fighter who just happened to take the Survival and Herbalism proficiencies.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think there's design space for a "Ranger", but basing it so heavily on Strider-Aragorn is awfully narrow...

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Aragorn was the greatest tracker and survivalist of his age. I can accept that he is just a Fighter with the right proficiencies if there are literally no rangers in his setting at that time.

lowkey13 said:

Celebrim said:

CapnZapp said:

Aragorn is obviously a Fighter who just happened to take the Survival and Herbalism proficiencies.

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Paladin.

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YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

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Fine: Warlord.

Tony Vargas said:

Fine: Warlord.

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You jest, but frankly a Warlord can make a pretty convincing Aragon.

*Deleted by user*

Blue said:

Actually, rogue's in some ways the flip side of the coin. Urban skills instead of natural. both skirmishers who can stealth, good at killing with a first shot from ambush, etc. Not saying that 5e Rogue with some skill substitutions would be ideal ranger, but I could easily see a single class that handles them all ina warlock-like two-choice. One about type @ 1st level (urban or natural, but probably more broken down) and then a subclass like choice later.

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Wilderness assassin/hunter/bounty hunter.

I'm not big on the spells, but you could use the burning spell slots mechanics paladins use for certain abilities.

I'm not a fan of pets, but it probably does fit the ranger's niche.

pogre said:

Wilderness assassin/hunter/bounty hunter.

I'm not big on the spells, but you could use the burning spell slots mechanics paladins use for certain abilities.

I'm not a fan of pets, but it probably does fit the ranger's niche.

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I was very happy to see how paladin smite worked, and then was sad when the ranger didn't have something similar. I tried to rewrite favored enemy and Hunter's Mark as a class ability early in 5th, but tabled that when Wizards was working on the alternate ranger.

I might have to dust that off.