Ranger Warlock Subclass idea

OK, so I have a player that wants a way to play a ranger type character that is slightly more warlock then druid. His concept is "I want to be a ranger that sells his soul to a wood witch or hag and gets some cool spells out of it" he went on to say he wanted something like the eldritch knight but with necromancey and illusion, but he didn't want to 100% give up on healing...

So this is what I came up with:


Starting at level 3 you stop using the spells per day of the ranger, and instead can regain your 2 1st level spells on short rests. At 5th level they increase to 2nd level slots, at 9th they increase to 3rd level, at 13th level they increase to 4th level, at 15th level you gain a 3rd slot, and at 17th they increase to 5th level slots. You still know spells as per Ranger, so 3 at 3rd level and 1 more every odd level.

You also gain 2 cantrips, you gain another one at 6th level (bringing you to 3), another one at 12th level (bringing you to 4) and a final one at level 18 (brining you to 5).

You gain Warlock Invocations at level 3, 7, 12, and 18.

3 Weapon bond as per Eldritch Knight 3
7 War Magic as per Eldritch Knight 7
11 Thought Shield as per Warlock Great old one 10
15 Improved War Magic as per Eldritch knight 18

Cantrips:
Chill touch
Eldritch Blast
Druidcraft
Frostbite
Infestation
Minor Illusion
Mold Earth
Primal Savagery
Shape Water
Spare the Dying
Thorn Whip
Toll the Dead

1st level
Armor of Agathys
Cause Fear
Color Spray
Disguise Self
Entangle
False Life
Find Familiar
Healing Word
Hellish Rebuke
Inflict Wounds
Ray of sickness
Silent Image
Snare

2nd level
Barkskin
Blind/Deafness
Blur
Cloud of Daggers
Darkness
Gentle Repose
Heat Metal
Invisibility
Lesser Restoration
Magic Mouth
Mind Spike
Mirror Image
Misty Step
Phantasmal Forces
Ray of Enfeeblement
Silence
Spider Climb

3rd level
Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Call Lightning
Enemies Abound
Fear
Feign Death
Hypnotic Pattern
Magic Circle
Major Image
Meld into Stone
Phantom Steed
Revivify
Speak with Dead
Summon Lesser Demons
Vampiric Touch

4th level
Blight
Conjur Minor Elemental
Greater Invisibility
Hallucinatory Terrain
Phantasmal Killer
Shadow of Moil
Sickening Radiance
Speak with Plants
Summon Greater Demon

5th level
Awaken
Contagion
Conjur Elemental
Creation
Dream
Enervation
Greater Restoration
Mislead
Scrying
Tree Stride



some notes: I don't know if I want to add a smite like spell to replace entangling smite, but I already know I don't want HEX on the list. I was thinking of taking some of the Hex blade instead of the eldritch knight, but this seemed a good spot to start.


I know that the game will start at 5th level and he is thinking of taking 1 level of rogue, and then 4 levels and most likly staying with this ranger.


I also know this will give him more cantrips then a warlock, but I like cantrips.


The amount of Invocations might be a bit too much, that I might want to take away all togather...


EDIT: his spell casting stat would be Cha not Wis, and as such not be a great synergy with his skills.

I don't see a problem with it, except that it clearly illustrates one of the biggest challenges of the 5e subclass system: it's really hard to make innovative changes through subclasses, since a character still has 1-2 levels before the subclass really kicks in.

Another approach you might try is hanging it on the warlock chassis instead of the ranger chassis, and adding ranger-y features (different skill proficiencies, martial weapon proficiency, altered spell list). That approach could sidestep a few of your issues; perhaps create a Pact of the Land or something similar? You could also look into just swapping out one or more class features at a given level. The Primeval Thule Player's Companion did that with the GOO patron, changing the 14th level class feature base on which specific Lovecraftian Elder God your pact was with. It's amazing how much changing one class feature, at a a level most PCs will never reach, changes the way a person will play their character.

It feels a little bit like you're trying to cram all the goodies into the sub-class (for example, a Ranger doesn't REALLY need cantrips because he already has pretty darned good weapon attacks), but otherwise I think the general concept is great. I don't feel this reveals any inherent flaws in the class/subclass system at all (not that there aren't any...just that this particular goal doesn't reveal any). A Ranger sub-class that leans toward more magic, in the context of a pact with a powerful being, is flavorful and interesting and a good variation from the existing subclasses. I love it.

Elfcrusher said:

It feels a little bit like you're trying to cram all the goodies into the sub-class. . .

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Aye.

I might be tempted to rewrite the ranger to give it warlock-style casting from the start. Not because of any problem with the OP's approach or goal, but because it might prove neat to have a whole half-caster class with pact magic instead of the usual, and since the OP has a player interested in the idea, it would actually see use.

. . . then freed from the need make the subclass do the work, it might be possible to slot the PH subclasses into this new pact-ranger, giving his player even more options.

The Blood Hunter with the Order of the Profane Soul archetype would be a very good option for you and he to look into.

Tyrfingr said:

The Blood Hunter with the Order of the Profane Soul archetype would be a very good option for you and he to look into.

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That wouldn't really give healing(unless he chose celestial, but Fey might be better flavor in this instance), but Magic Initiate and multiclassing are still a thing.

so thank you everyone for the feed back, here is what the player sent back to me as a counter offer...


Starting at level 3 you stop using the spells per day of the ranger, and instead can regain your 2 1st level spells on short rests. At 5th level they increase to 2nd level slots, at 9th they increase to 3rd level, at 13th level they increase to 4th level, at 15th level you gain a 3rd slot, and at 17th they increase to 5th level slots. You still know spells as per Ranger, so 3 at 3rd level and 1 more every odd level.

You also gain 2 cantrips, you gain another one at 6th level (bringing you to 3), another one at 12th level (bringing you to 4) and a final one at level 18 (brining you to 5).

You gain Warlock Invocations at level 7, 12, and 18.

so he took 1 off of this from 3rd

Click to expand...

3 Pact of Chain (instead of imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprit you can one of the following special forms: Blink Dog, Boar, Giant Wolf Spider, Panther, or Wolf)

wtf...he replaces weapon bond with a blink dog familiar...of all changes this is the most weird and out there.

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7 War Magic as per Eldritch Knight 7
11 Misty Escape as per Fey warlock 6

instead of my thought shield

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15 Improved War Magic as per Eldritch knight 18

Cantrips:

it looks like he only took away some...notice no eldritch blast or chill touch

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Druidcraft
Frostbite
Infestation
Minor Illusion
Mold Earth
Primal Savagery
Shape Water
Spare the Dying
Thorn Whip
Toll the Dead

1st level

he took out false life and added fog cloud and wrathful smite

Click to expand...

Armor of Agathys
Cause Fear
Color Spray
Disguise Self
Entangle
Fog Cloud
Healing Word
Hellish Rebuke
Inflict Wounds
Ray of Sickness
Silent Image
Snare
Wrathful Smite

2nd level

he added animal messenger

Click to expand...

Animal Messenger
Bark skin
Blind/Deafness
Blur
Cloud of Daggers
Darkness
Gentle Repose
Heat Metal
Invisibility
Lesser Restoration
Magic Mouth
Mind Spike
Mirror Image
Misty Step
Phantasmal Forces
Ray of Enfeeblement
Silence
Spider Climb

3rd level
Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Call Lightning
Enemies Abound
Fear
Feign Death
Hypnotic Pattern
Major Image
Meld into Stone
Pass without Trace
Phantom Steed
Revivify
Speak with Dead
Summon Lesser Demons
Vampiric Touch

4th level

he added speak with plants

Click to expand...

Blight
Conjur Minot Elemental
Greater Invisibility
Hallucinatory Terrain
Phantasmal Killer
Shadow of Moil
Sickening Radiance
Speak with Plants
Summon Greater Demon

5th level

he added banishing smite

Click to expand...

Awaken
Banishing Smite
Contagion
Conjur Elemental
Creation
Dream
Enervation
Greater Restoration
Mislead
Scrying
Tree Stride

So the spell change ups didn't mean much to me, and misty escape isn't a big deal...the blink dog seems to be pushing it.

I do have another campaign I am working on that will have GoT style worgs in it...I think he might want something like that, but I don't know how I feel about it.

GMforPowergamers said:

So the spell change ups didn't mean much to me, and misty escape isn't a big deal...the blink dog seems to be pushing it.

I do have another campaign I am working on that will have GoT style worgs in it...I think he might want something like that, but I don't know how I feel about it.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing it's the effectively unlimited teleportation that's concerning you, since the rest of the blink dog is line with the other creatures

What if you removed the recharge from the blink dog's teleport feature and made it 2/short rest? Or whatever number works best for you.

He just sent me this as an example of his build:

Drow Pact of the Woodwitch Ranger/Rogue 4/1

8 Str -1 16 Dex +3 12 Con +1 10 Int - 13 Wis +1 16 Cha +3

Darkvision 120ft, Sunlight DIs adv attack and perc
Tools: Thieves’ tools +9
Saving Throws: Dexterity +6. Intelligence +3
Skills: Acrobatics +6, Deception +6. Insight +4, Intimidation +6, Investigation +3, Perception +7, Stealth +6, Survival +3
Feature: Discovery- I know of an ancient site of power that is locked off from the drow and I want to claim it as my own.

Favored Enemy: Fey
Sneak Attack +1d6
Feat: Dual Weider

Armor: Studded Lather (AC 16 17 w/two rapier)

Weapons: 2 black and gold rapiers, and a white bone long bow, 3 obsidian stone knives

+6 to hit 1d8+3 (+1d6sa)

Spells: 2 1st level slots: Armor of Agathys, Healing Words, Wraith SMite
Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Spare the Dying, dancing lights
1/long rest: Faire Fire, Darkness


and "Shadow Stalker"
Medium fey, lawful good
Armor Class 13 Hit Points 22 (4d8 + 4) Speed 40ft.
STR 12 (+1) DEX 17 (+3) CON 12 (+1) INT 10 (+0) WIS 13 (+1) CHA 11 (+0)
Skills Perception +3, Stealth +5 Senses passive Perception 13
Languages Blink Dog, understands Sylvan but can't speak it Challenge 1/4 (50 XP)
Keen Hearing and Smell. The dog has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or smell.
ACTIONS
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage.
Teleport (Recharge 4-6). The dog magically teleports, along with any equipment it is wearing or carrying, up to 40 feet to an unoccupied space it can see. Before or after teleporting, the dog can make one bite attack.