Improving monk of the four elements

I know this has been discussed many times over, but as I'm thinking of playing a monk of the four elements soon I was thinking what I would change if I was the archmage of the coast.

I would change one thing aboit monk of the four elements. A single thing. I would at third level allow them to use a ki point to cast absorb elements as a reaction.

I love the idea of absorbing an elemental spell cast and them and using it straight after in a strike. It has a very deflect arrows feel to me.

In your opinions, would this make the subclass more interesting to you?

I think it's a cool and appropriate concept but it does nothing to adress (if anything it only worsens) the main issue with WotFE; it's abyssmal recource economy and scaling.
You could change it to something along the lines of "1x per long rest you can absorb the effects of an elemental spell to restore you Ki points to full" and you'd still be fine.

Google search 'Way of the Four Elements Remastered' and you'll find the redone version of the subclass that many people think is the standard for a revision for people who want to play a WofFE monk.

Adding abilities that weren't around when the PHB came out will probably be okay by many DMs who are open to changes.

The subclass has been touched a lot because it has problems compared to the other Monk subclasses. One easy change (but that doesn't mean it was the best) was reducing every base ki cost in the subclass by 1. What I mean by "base" is that the costs for extra effect, like damage in Disciplines like Fangs of the Fire Snake, Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip remain the same, while all other ki costs go down by 1.

(Hey, note that Water Whip has been errata'd to an Action, not Bonus Action. Otherwise it seems too cheap with this change.)

So, with the opportunity cost of a discipline pick, you can trade the Ki for a Stunning Strike to instead cast Burning Hands. Or with a different pick Thunderwave. Or a different discipline pick to trade two Stunning Strikes for a Hold Person. About the most powerful is that, with the cost of a discipline pick, you can give your unarmed strikes reach with the (occasional penalty?) that they do fire damage for no cost. That seems reasonable for a class feature.

It's still not a high powered class, but it's in the curve and playable.

There was a very recent thread on this. The consensus is to lower the cost of the spells, grant more of them, and/or only require a bonus action to activate.

The other option is to rewrite it entirely. If you can find the NEXT playtest docs, the Four Elements monk was WAY more interesting. I would allow a player to choose which version they wanted to use.

I think the best way to do it is to use the Sun Soul as a template for other elements if you want them.

I am just spit-balling this (and it may not be better), but maybe gut most of it, and make a subclass feature that flurry of blows can let you make two melee attacks, cast two cantrips, or make one melee attack and cast one cantrip. Give them the same # of cantrips as an eldritch knight, but make the cantrip list be the elemental ones. And as long as you are stealing from EK, steal the spell casting to, and just make a list full of elemental spells the monk can chose from.

That would be easy to update (any time a new 4th level or lower elemental spell comes out, you add it to the list), and the monk would probably spend most of his/her ki on flurry of blows.

MechaTarrasque said:

I am just spit-balling this (and it may not be better), but maybe gut most of it, and make a subclass feature that flurry of blows can let you make two melee attacks, cast two cantrips, or make one melee attack and cast one cantrip. Give them the same # of cantrips as an eldritch knight, but make the cantrip list be the elemental ones. And as long as you are stealing from EK, steal the spell casting to, and just make a list full of elemental spells the monk can chose from.

That would be easy to update (any time a new 4th level or lower elemental spell comes out, you add it to the list), and the monk would probably spend most of his/her ki on flurry of blows.

Click to expand...

I think this may be a bit more damage then seems at first blush.

Cantrips seem positioned (baring class feature boosts like Agonizing Blast) to be weaker than a full action, but in the neighborhood. They're strong enough not to be a "wasted action" even if less than a weapon attack from someone focusing on weapons.

Allowing an Attack sequence with possible multiple attacks and up to two cantrips on top of it is quite a lot more at-will damage then any other class deals out. A sorcerer can manage two cantrips in a round - with using SP for twin spell metamagic. And they still don't load a competent, possibly multi-attack Attack action on top of it. Eldritch Knights get to do a single cantrip and just one attack, and that doesn't come until 7th.

(If multiclassing is allowed a warlock dip for EB, Agonizing Blast,a dn possibly other EB boosters makes it even more devastating.)

I like the idea of cantrips adding in, but I'd go close to EK with a cantrip and single attack.

CubicsRube said:

I know this has been discussed many times over, but as I'm thinking of playing a monk of the four elements soon I was thinking what I would change if I was the archmage of the coast.

I would change one thing aboit monk of the four elements. A single thing. I would at third level allow them to use a ki point to cast absorb elements as a reaction.

I love the idea of absorbing an elemental spell cast and them and using it straight after in a strike. It has a very deflect arrows feel to me.

In your opinions, would this make the subclass more interesting to you?

Click to expand...

BacchusNL said:

I think it's a cool and appropriate concept but it does nothing to adress (if anything it only worsens) the main issue with WotFE; it's abyssmal recource economy and scaling.
You could change it to something along the lines of "1x per long rest you can absorb the effects of an elemental spell to restore you Ki points to full" and you'd still be fine.

Click to expand...

I don't think that's true at all, actually. Paying 1 ki to cast Absorb Elements is in line with how the Shadow Monk functions. It's a totally fair price that enhances the strength to the class overall. It doesn't fix the subclass, but it certainly doesn't make it even worse. Combine it with reduced Ki cost of all disciplines, and 1 cantrip per subclass level, and you've got a subclass that wouldn't have been viewed as outside the normal power band of the PHB as a whole.

However, there is room for a bit more, and it could work more simply.

First, I'd give the subclass the wu jen disciplines from the UA mystic, gaining 1 for free at level 3, and fold the effects of the elemental evil utility cantrips into the appropriate disciplines.

Second, I'd add at level 3 an ability to absorb elemental damage as a reaction, reducing it by half. If you spend 1 or more ki, you can deal 1 or more martial arts die of that type of damage on your next successful melee attack before the end of your next turn.

At level 6, I'd add the ability to make all of your attacks deal the elemental damage of your currently active wu jen discipline (renamed, obviously) when you use Flurry of Blows.

Later, I'd maybe look at upgrading the level 6 ability to that your attacks can always deal elemental damage, and you deal extra damage of that type equal to your proficiency mod on all attacks when you Flurry? Or, maybe your late level benefit is choosing a lower level discipline with a casting time of 1 action that you can now cast as a bonus action?

The level 3 and 6 benefits are the most important things, though.

Then, the rest would remain that same, except that disciplines would cost 1 ki per spell level, instead of 1+1/spell level.

Blue said:

I think this may be a bit more damage then seems at first blush.

Cantrips seem positioned (baring class feature boosts like Agonizing Blast) to be weaker than a full action, but in the neighborhood. They're strong enough not to be a "wasted action" even if less than a weapon attack from someone focusing on weapons.

Allowing an Attack sequence with possible multiple attacks and up to two cantrips on top of it is quite a lot more at-will damage then any other class deals out. A sorcerer can manage two cantrips in a round - with using SP for twin spell metamagic. And they still don't load a competent, possibly multi-attack Attack action on top of it. Eldritch Knights get to do a single cantrip and just one attack, and that doesn't come until 7th.

(If multiclassing is allowed a warlock dip for EB, Agonizing Blast,a dn possibly other EB boosters makes it even more devastating.)

I like the idea of cantrips adding in, but I'd go close to EK with a cantrip and single attack.

Click to expand...

That makes sense (my original thought as way of the 4 elementals as the eldritch knight version of the monk), so I was thinking one melee attack plus one cantrip, but I am a little concerned that the elemental monk would need something tradition-specific to spend ki points on (but I wanted something other than 2 ki points for a spell).