D&D 5E Balance of this? - Pass Concentration spell

Concentration is really two restrictions baked into one:
a) the "you can only cast one of these spells at a time" limitation. Let's call this Focus spells, you can only focus on one focus spell at a time.
b) the "damage might lose you this spell" limitation. Let's call this Disruptable spells, whenever you take damage (etc) you must make a Disruption save or lose the spell.

So a "concentration" spell is really a spell that is both a Focus spell and a Disruptable spell.

Certain spells might reasonably be a Focus spell, but become utter as a Disruption spell. Stoneskin is perhaps the simplest example. It is reasonable to prevent the spellcaster from stoneskinning everybody in the party. Having a spell designed to mitigate armor fall off when... you take damage(!) means nobody ever uses it in practice.

Having a hard and unbreakable limit of one (1) focus spell and one (1) disruptable spell, that moreover must be one and the same spell, is a serious limit to what combinations you can pull off as a spellcaster, especially at higher levels.

The Jester is not wrong in his desire to slightly lift the lid on this restriction.

Of course, wholesale removal of the restrictions will quickly lead to spellcasters becoming far too powerful, d20 style. This is why it is so valuable to realize the Concentration = Focus + Disruption fact.

The best solution would be to hand pick a couple Concentration spells and make them either Focus or Disruption but not both. This would greatly breathe new life into these spells without noticeably powering up the spellcaster.

Obviously this presumes a general rule that moves the "only one spell" to Focus spells. All Concentration spells remain Focus spells, so this would only actually matter for the specific spells we relabel from Concentration to Focus or Disruption.

Stoneskin is the perfect candidate for a Focus spell.

Good example of Disruption spells would be mind-control spells which you already today can cast at many people (Hold Person) and where the main liability is "hurt the Sorceress so Redgar and Lidda snaps out of their trance". Spells where you can allow multiple castings since one failed save ruins them all. Spells where the spellcaster must stick around (and expose himself) and can't just debilitate the heroes and then teleport out for her henchmen to finish off. (Generally any disruption spell should specify some kind of "needs to maintain line of effect" restriction, though not the clumsy and trivially broken Witch Bolt kind)

But mostly the thing is to be able to have "one at a time" spells without the "breaks any second now".

Saeviomagy said:

Transferring concentration on stoneskin to the person you put it on seems like a great idea.

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This is actually the opposite of a great idea. The only Stoneskin worth having is a Stoneskin where the target can be attacked without the spell disappearing. Since, you know, the entire idea of Stoneskin is allowing you to survive when attacked. If you aren't attacked you don't need Stoneskin - for Stoneskin to be worth your while, you want to soak attacks.

Stoneskin gets completely ignored unless it can be made a Focus spell (see my previous post) or unless the Wizard casts the spell on the fighter but keeps the Concentration on himself (then it's just a horribly overpriced spell since the Wiz can't concentrate on something else at the same time).

Tony Vargas said:

First impression: it's a bit like the old 'Mnemonic Enhancer' in that it's a spell that directly addresses a game mechanic. Is that really worth it?

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cbwjm said:

The name is fine but I'd suggest making it something fancy, something like: Rary's Concentration Transferral.

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My first thought was actually something completely different. This thread is as good as any to bring it up.

The Wizard ability Spell Mastery is god awful, especially at such a lofty level (18th). Saving low-level slots is hardly a pressing concern for archmages.

Much better and more level-appropriate would be for Spell Mastery to allow you to cast your chosen spells without the Concentration requirement!

S p e l l M a s t e r y
At 18th level, you have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you effortlessly maintain concentration on them.
Choose a 1st-level wizard spell and a 2nd-level wizard spell that are in your spellbook and each requires Concentration. You can cast either of those spells at their lowest level even if you are already Concentrating on another spell without losing that other spell. If your Concentration is broken, you lose both spells.
By spending 8 hours in study, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels.

This phrasing essentially waives the Focus requirement without dropping the Disruption drawback (see my previous post explaining Focus and Disruption).

the Jester said:

• The 30 foot range also seemed like a good way to make sure you weren't pulling "the guy concentrating is miles away" shenanigans, but I think it needs more reinforcement.

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Range is only relevant at the time of casting. If you wanted to say "you need to stay within range X at all times" you need to do so!

That aside aside... I agree with the previous poster to make the spell a touch spell.

The easiest solution is to limit the spell only to a target of the spell. This way, any "drive-by casting" shenanigans (where you face a foe but the one concentrating is nowhere to be found) is avoided. Of course, this limits the utility of Transfer Concentration, but that's perhaps for the best.

If you decide Redgar the Fighter gets to enjoy Fly, Haste or Stoneskin while you the Wizard shunts off Concentration to Lidda the Invisible you really need to think hard on restrictions (that easily make the spell very complex). This isn't just a can of worms, it's an entire bog full of them wrigglies...!

CapnZapp said:

This is actually the opposite of a great idea. The only Stoneskin worth having is a Stoneskin where the target can be attacked without the spell disappearing. Since, you know, the entire idea of Stoneskin is allowing you to survive when attacked. If you aren't attacked you don't need Stoneskin - for Stoneskin to be worth your while, you want to soak attacks.

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This is only true if the target and the caster are the same creature.

wedgeski said:

This is only true if the target and the caster are the same creature.

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You removed the half of my post where I say exactly that.

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CapnZapp said:

This is actually the opposite of a great idea. The only Stoneskin worth having is a Stoneskin where the target can be attacked without the spell disappearing. Since, you know, the entire idea of Stoneskin is allowing you to survive when attacked. If you aren't attacked you don't need Stoneskin - for Stoneskin to be worth your while, you want to soak attacks.

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Which it can do just fine if you give it to someone who can make dc 10 concentration checks with regularity.
I think even if you could do that as the caster, you'd pick a better concentration spell.

Actually never mind... The real reason it sucks is that it only blocks basic melee damage, which other lower level, cheaper things do better.

To me, being able to change spells around is the thematic focus of the sorcerer. I can see metamagic that does something with concentration, but I don't think other casters should have the option to adjust it. It steps too much on the toes of what make sorcerers unique.

That said, others don't have to agree with how I envision class niches so let me make constructive comments on the original thought.

Multi-concentration is a game-changer. Passing off concentration to those without spells who won't get hit much (like that archer), who have good Con saves, or maybe even to NPCs who aren't taking part of the battle, is a big boost. From a balance perspective I'd suggest that passing concentration off should be limited to spells that are targeting them and only them. So you can hand off invisibility to the rogue that you cast it on, but you couldn't pass off a hypnotic pattern so you could cast another, or pass off that earth elemental that will last an hour and cast a buff.

Saeviomagy said:

Which it can do just fine if you give it to someone who can make dc 10 concentration checks with regularity.
I think even if you could do that as the caster, you'd pick a better concentration spell.

Actually never mind... The real reason it sucks is that it only blocks basic melee damage, which other lower level, cheaper things do better.

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Well, it was only the first spell that came to mind as an example of a spell/effect that really shouldn't be Disruptable, but might well stay a Focus spell.

Let's discuss Stoneskin's failings in an other thread

Blue said:

To me, being able to change spells around is the thematic focus of the sorcerer. I can see metamagic that does something with concentration, but I don't think other casters should have the option to adjust it. It steps too much on the toes of what make sorcerers unique.

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But "metamagic is what makes Sorcerers unique" is a crappy decision.

And while I agree to your first sentence, I only do so with an important addition:

"To me, being able to change spells around on the fly is the thematic focus of the sorcerer."

And only if their ability to "change spells around" were renamed into something else than metamagic, a term heavily suggesting philosophical, intellectual and formal themes over instinctual, hap-hazardous and emotional ones.

Anyway - it is definitely appropriate and thematic for wizards to research unique and modified spells. Wizards should definitely have been given some ability to create Heightened Charm Person or Quickened Fireball as "new" spells, treated as separate from the normal versions; a Wizard could then add Heightened Charm Person to her spellbook and include it on her list of prepared spells. But if she then doesn't prepare the regular Charm Person, she would be unable to cast that: all her Charm Persons would have to be heightened (unlike the sorcerer, whose schtick is doing it on the fly)

Also, I see no good reason for Cleric et al to be unable to pray for metamagicked versions of their spells from their God. (Assuming a better Sorcerer class, that is, one with a really good unique schtick!)