D&D 5E Magic Item Costs in 5E

Remathilis

Legend
The issue with magic item pricing isn't about where you acquire it, whether that be from the altar of a sunken temple or as a gift from a wealthy noble patron. The issue is that magic item acquisition should always be an adventure. The behavior you want to avoid is returning to town with 10,000gp in your pocket, and then all the players open up the magic item book and start making a shopping list.

This.

In my Pathfinder game, I lamented that NPCs are loaded with junk +1 items, potions, and scrolls that the team rarely uses and instead sells at 1/2 value. They replied with "Sure, but then I buy exactly what I want with the gp."

It takes the wonder out of items and reduces them to another widget. :(
 

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Kid Charlemagne

I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
How often do Noblemen see a monster? Once in their lives? Twice? Never? Sure, the duke might have a use for a magic sword, but it wouldn't be to go out adventuring.

The Duke's use for a magic sword might be to hand it out as an incentive to the next band of adventurers that he wants to do him a favor, so that they can go fight the ogre or dragon or whatever so that the Duke can stay home with his well-stocked wine cellar.

My position is that I like rare magic, with items being hard to come by and ideally uniquely created, but I do think it is inevitable some market will emerge to buy and sell them. It may be a very haphazard and limited market, but it only makes sense that it will exist in some form.
 

Andor

First Post
This is a somewhat strange discussion. First it's impossible to even guess what the value of magicitems in 5e is without knowing how they are made. If it's 3e style where a magic item eats xp and "components" then they'll be fairly cheap. If it's 2e style where it might eat a point of con to make any item they'll be much more valuable. If it's 1e style where making a simple scroll called for multiple high level quests then the commonality of items in the hands of monsters is very puzzeling, but implies most items will be gained by prying them from the cold dead fingers of the prior owners.

So, without the DMG all we can discuss is speculation and what we plan to do at our own tables.

But I do wonder at the idea that fantasy nobles would not be interested in or using magic weapons. If they aren't, why are they not being kicked out of their manors and castles by adventurers who are capable defending the land? Where RL nobles would ride to hunt fox and deer, D&D nobles should be riding to the hounds chasing ankehgs and ogres, or whatever the local problems are. In a world where thugs are 4hd combatants with two attacks a noble had better be a damn sight better.

Also, are weapons the only magic items? In the Lord of the Rings there were a handful of weapons that were probably magical. Sting, Orcrist, Glamdring, Anduril, maybe the black arrow. There were a couple of other adventuring class items. The phial of Galadrial, the horn. And then there were litterally hundreds of other items. Rope, walking staves, toys, magical musical instruments, so cheap and plentiful that Bilbo gave them out by the crate. Admittedly Bilbo was both wealthy and well connected, but there it is.

It's always bugged me how combat-centric the D&D magic system is, a hundred ways to blow things up and not one damn way to heat your house. The flipside is that when you do allow non-combat magic and magic items into the world you rapidly find yourself in Eberron. Eberron is great, but it not what everyone wants.

I'm rambling a bit, but I suppose the point is that you have to look the mechanical implications of the system, the market implications of the social system, and finally the goals of the game all together and tweak the details to suit.
 

Remathilis

Legend
The Duke's use for a magic sword might be to hand it out as an incentive to the next band of adventurers that he wants to do him a favor, so that they can go fight the ogre or dragon or whatever so that the Duke can stay home with his well-stocked wine cellar.

My position is that I like rare magic, with items being hard to come by and ideally uniquely created, but I do think it is inevitable some market will emerge to buy and sell them. It may be a very haphazard and limited market, but it only makes sense that it will exist in some form.

There are two simultaneous arguments going on (three, if you split one up into smaller parts)

1.) That Prices for Magic Items should be given
2.) That PCs can buy those items at the listed price.
3.) That Anyone can buy them at all.

# 3 is hyperbole; I think there naturally would be a market for these items, often traded for favors, gold, or services. I don't even think the PHB means "items are never traded for other things" as much as it means "don't think you're going to sell that +1 sword and put it towards buying a +2 sword."

The issue comes down to #1; should the game set a fixed cost on the item? If it does, does that automatically assume #2 as well?
 

Grainger

Explorer
How often do Noblemen see a monster? Once in their lives? Twice? Never? Sure, the duke might have a use for a magic sword, but it wouldn't be to go out adventuring. It would be to put on a mantle and look at.

That depends on the setup of your campaign, and what a "noble" is. In a feudal society, nobles are the military - so if there are monsters in the world, they may have to defend their fiefdom from monsters. If the King, or a noble to whom they owe fealty, needs help fighting monsters, then off they go to help, taking their vassals and men-art-arms with them. They'd surely take their magic sword.

They'd also use it to fight other nobles, if their rivalry erupted into war, and if the weapon in question gave them magical advantages in that situation.

If there's a system of primogeniture in place, there would also be a lot of noblemen mooching around with not much to do because they are not their father's eldest son. They might go into the clergy, take a scholarly pursuit, or become bandits. In a fantasy world, rather than become bandits, they may well become adventurers, as although more dangerous, it's presumably a bit more respectable, is at least legal, and promises greater rewards. In fact, in a feudal-style world, I'd say sons of nobles would be the largest demographic group of adventurers by far.

Young nobles are the best set up to become adventurers:
  • They likely have martial training from their father/siblings.
  • They're wealthy enough to have armour and weapons (or they may have inherited it - their father might give them an older set, or have plundered armour from a fallen rival when he was younger);
  • They are educated (which gives them a chance to go down the "wizard" or "cleric" routes)
  • They may have ties to the clergy ("cleric" route).

In short, they're much better set up to begin adventuring than people in the peasant class (except perhaps for those going into the Rouge character class), so there should be a lot of them about (compared to peasant class adventurers). So, even though the peasant class is much more numerous, I suspect the adventuring "profession" would be dominated by young noblemen.
 
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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
There are two simultaneous arguments going on (three, if you split one up into smaller parts)

1.) That Prices for Magic Items should be given
2.) That PCs can buy those items at the listed price.
3.) That Anyone can buy them at all.

# 3 is hyperbole; I think there naturally would be a market for these items, often traded for favors, gold, or services. I don't even think the PHB means "items are never traded for other things" as much as it means "don't think you're going to sell that +1 sword and put it towards buying a +2 sword."

The issue comes down to #1; should the game set a fixed cost on the item? If it does, does that automatically assume #2 as well?
To your last two questions I'd like to think "yes", if for no other reason than anything else would quickly leave me DMing a game of 'buy low, sell high'; which I will not do.

Lanefan
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
This is another one of those 5e topics where I am confused by the idea that "less advice is better" mantra.

If item price guidelines are not provided, DMs are left to their own devices and may or may not come up with reasonable values.
If price guidelines are provided, at least those DMs who wish to use them have a baseline to measure against. They are totally free to ignore them, too.

If you can't handle ignoring something that's in a rulebook, you may have a problem. :p

You can handle roughly playing it by ear on item values. Let go of the need for absolute precision, and just give it an estimate based on your campaign. You may be surprised how easy this is after you do it a couple times, and how it doesn't break anything.
 

Henrix

Explorer
But I do wonder at the idea that fantasy nobles would not be interested in or using magic weapons. If they aren't, why are they not being kicked out of their manors and castles by adventurers who are capable defending the land?

Because they spend money on more soldiers instead of getting +1 to hit and damage on one of them?


I do think nobles have magic weapons. Appropriate to them, not a +2 flail.

But I do not think they are ready to buy them en masse. One is enough. Ten soldier are better than one with a +2 flail.

The issue is whether the PCs can go out on town and sell a bunch of magic items for an expected price.

Giving a magic weapon to your liege in exchange for future unspecified favours, or as tax for the land you own, the right to bear arms and dig up treasure on his lands, is perfectly fine, and probably expected.
Actually as expected as lending aid to your liege without monetary recompense.

Donating a magic censer to a temple would also be the good thing to do if you want to keep their favour.
Perhaps they'll even get you a raise.


I feel certain this is an issue that will be taken up in the DMG, as many like their li'l shoppe of magicks.
But perhaps not give fixed prices.
[Edit] Like there was in the playtest document.[/Edit]
 
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Andor

First Post
But I do not think they are ready to buy them en masse. One is enough. Ten soldier are better than one with a +2 flail.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what the local troubles are. Remember 5e returns us to having some monsters which cannot be hurt without magic weapons. 10 archers with +1 longbows would be much better than a single +2 anything.
 

Joddy37

First Post
I prefer magic items to be scarce and coveted in my campaigns. The magic items' value is to be strictly tied to the potential buyer. We all know from basic Economics, an item's value is derived from its supply and demand for it.

Are the magic items everywhere, mass produced in wizards' labs in big cities? No. Only a handful of motivated and curious enchanters make a life of creating magic items, working for years to create better and more beautiful items, maybe destroying most of their mediocre work through their career. They won't advertise their stock, it draws unwanted attention. They are mainly creating such items for understanding magic and the weave, the art, with the hunger for knowledge. Seldom they will sell their stuff to anybody. When they do, it will be mainly to get raw materials. They will hide their creations. When they die, most of their work will be forgotten, only to be found centuries later by adventurers.

Too few adventurer wizards create magic items, and when they do, it is mainly to keep the items to themselves. Adventurers generally uncover magic items from forgotten crypts, dungeons, ruins etc. But too many adventurers die to monsters' fearsome claws, or to traps in deadly dungeons. So what they acquire will be lost where they fall, or maybe moved elsewhere by monsters, or stolen by evil beings or rivals. Also, too few people decide to be adventurers in the first place. Maybe not even one in a hundred.

In any case, due to such conditions, magic will be a rarity even in a world of wonders. There is no constant influx of magic items to the medieval market. This makes them very valuable indeed. But what about demand?

A peasant or a commoner can't probably afford a magic item ever. Because there will always be better buyers out there for such items. Peasant lives to earn money, livestock to feed himself, his family and maybe relatives. He doesn't care for a magic weapon anyway. How can he use it? He is not a fighter, not proficient with any weapon. A potion of healing? Yeah, maybe that one. He may one day use it when he is badly hurt falling from his roof while thatching. How many times a peasant needs to heal himself? Once a year? He may just buy one if he can save his one month or earnings, and can find a seller near him.

A member of a clergy, or some merchant or a craftsman as potential buyers? Do they want to buy a magic item? Local priests may buy it if the item is a potion, a scroll or a similar consumable that can help people of his faith. They don't have much money, they maintain their place with donations, so can't pay big prices for magic items. A merchant may buy such items to profit. So among all else, they are the ones that will try to bargain heavily on an item. Soldiers? Yeah, they may be potential buyers, they surely need weapons and healing magic. But they are also limited in their actions because they belong to an organized group and under orders. What happens when a soldier finds the money and gets himself a longsword +1? Do his officers permit him to keep that while other soldiers use normal weapons?

The rich and the nobility? Yeah they can afford nearly everything. But will they hoard every simple magic item in their mansions? Set aside the collectors, I don't think so. They will want to chase special items, objects of art, be it magical or nonmagical. The rich people don't blindly buy everything they won't ever need. If the noble meets you and you have a +1 longsword and a beautiful jeweled hair brush set to sell, he may well choose to buy the latter instead of the former.

So until this point your hard earned magic items will be on low demand among the bulk of the population. Who else left as potential buyers? Adventurers, spellcasters, mercenaries, agents of poer groups, villains and the ordinary people that strive to gain more power and influence in their lives. In other words, heroes and to-be heroes and villains, just like you and your party. They desire to gain power, and they want to pay big prices for powerful items, or make someone pay for them (if they are evil or selfish). They think they know how to handle such power, they have the means and the ability to protect their magic items against theft etc. unlike the normal folk.

So, as a result, you eventually end up with a small number of people in the campaign world that will want to buy magic items. You have to meet them and strike a bargain. It is now an adventure and role playing opportunity in itself. Do the books need to give gold equivalent values for the items now? Maybe, but not necessarily. Those prices fluctuate violently from city to city, from person to person anyway. The books need only give neat guidelines to DMs about a logical pricing strategy.
 

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