Why do people dislike the Zealot

CapnZapp

Legend
There's a difference between me trying to choose between the Berserker and Totem subclasses and probably choosing to go with Totem since resistance to energy damage is marginally superior to getting an extra attack per round in one combat per day, and the official developers of the game officially declaring that the Berserker subclass is a garbage subclass for idiots and absolutely nobody should ever play it unless they're intentionally trying to make an under-powered character.

If the Zealot is supposed to be Berserker 2.0 because the original Berserker is considered unplayably bad, then that's a problem. That they choose to hide it as a stealth-upgrade, rather than address it with errata, does not make it less of a problem; in either case, it's bad enough to require an official fix. There is no positive way to spin this issue, if the Zealot is supposed to replace the Berserker.

If the Zealot is not supposed to replace the Berserker, than that indicates the developers still have some confidence in the Berserker; it may be less popular, but they still think it's good enough to be fun at the table. In that case, and that case alone, the introduction of the Zealot is not indicative of a problem with the product I already own. The disparity may still exist, but it's not so incredibly insurmountable that they feel the need to address it with an official patch.
It can be both.

By that I mean they want to provide option two for those whose dislike for the Berserker exceeds their dislike for upgrades, stealth or no.

And anyone whose dislike for fixes exceed their dislike for the subclass can choose option one.

One could argue they should take a stand. But they won't do that. Antagonizing one of the two groups isn't worth it.

And so there is no official confirmation that the Zealot is in any way connected to the Berserker. Any such is simply implicated by fans, because of perceived similarities.
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
They aren't going to fix anything that's already printed, they've stated that time and time again. New subclasses do not replace old ones, just provide more options.
All good in theory.

But when customers perceive a new option basically replaces an old one, things become less easy in practice.
 

Personally I really like the flavor for the Zealot because one of my homebrew setting's deities, War Mother, is the goddess of barbarians. Zealot Barbarians make more sense than Clerics and Paladins do for her faithful.
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
All good in theory.

But when customers perceive a new option basically replaces an old one, things become less easy in practice.

The trick is that perception varies considerably from person to person, if a player doesn't have any problem with the berserker (their table plays at a low enough level of optimization that a slightly better choice than their friends make will render them flush again) then it doesn't replace it, it only acts as a replacement for those who feel they need one.

and for us it's very welcome, its not based off the designers own analysis of the avilable options, it's based off our feedback.
 


If the (sub)class name sounds like someone that heroes from a fantasy novel would fight, then they are probably as much for the DM as for the players: warlock, necromancer, assassin, brute, berserker, zealot, anyone with treachery, conquest, death, or whisper in his/her name....

Also, it is remarkable how well so many of these synch up so well with monsters....
 





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