D&D 5E [D&D 5e] Level 1 Max Min Fun DPR and AC

Updated the original post with input and corrections.

ClaytonCross said:

Single Round Max AC

Human Variant Fighter
---Scale Mail - AC14(Max2)
---Dex bonus - AC16
---Defensive Fighting style (Armor AC +1) - AC16
---Shield (+2 AC) - 18
---Magic initiate: Shield +5
Total AC 23

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24, Defensive Fighting Style brings it up to AC 17. Shield = 19. Shield spell = 24.

Mistwell said:

24, Defensive Fighting Style brings it up to AC 17. Shield = 19. Shield spell = 24.

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Fixed. thanks!

Heyy thx so much, would never have noticed that you could only use action surge once
And didn't know that some things didn't stack, my newbie group will be sad.

Will definitely have to make changes and take things out

But at least I will be playing the game properly tho, but as for the Tarrasque. That was a different story

Now I know I had a lot of things that shouldn't be there but bare with me while I explain myself with the Tarrasque

I didn't start the game next to the Tarrasque but 70 ft away. Granted I had help with my own built archer build called Artemis (another of my character)
Gilgamesh had haste granted to him by Artemis
Having 30 x 2 = 60 ft
Plus having that sweet dash of 60 ft being doubled from haste = 120 ft (Haste allows you to use dash as a bonus action) (It would suck if any of this part was false too)
So I would run into attacking range of the Tarrasque using up to 40ft dealing 4 attacks (only 1 or 2 would hit at a time)
With an attack roll of +5 (from the str modifier) and +1 from the sword being magical
And then I would use dash to move usually 100 ft away.

(Forgot the numbers of dmg so just going to use them the middle number) Dealing like 8 DMG, but Gilgamesh was only supposed to keep him away from my other character Artemis, who was the one that had like 15 attack roll (this was from the double prof for being in the fav environment) (Is this actually true??) (I would be really sad if it wasn't)
Prof 3 x 2 = 6
Ranger and fighting style archery 2 + 2 = 4 (I think you said this doesn't stack)(I'm really sad but for the sake of explaining my battle)
Dex +5
Making a nice 15 attack roll without the roll for my Artemis (Archer class)
He dealt a good average of
Dex on dmg roll +5 x 4 = 20
Assimar activating Radiant souls +9 x 4 = 36
And then the actual bow dmg (Just made this middle number because I don't remember the actual numbers) +4 x 4 = 16

So per turn for my Archer, I did 82 dmg roughly per turn
(Also got to summon "Conjur animals" (Giant Owls), but then my Archer ran out of 3rd lvl spells because he only has 2 uses)
They didn't really attack but to just protect and move the two characters to safety

DMG including my Gil & Arty character this was a total of 90
So really the Tarrasque should have died somewhere around 8-10ish turns (676 divided by 90 = 7.5)

I only had 2 characters which were just my own (Gilgamesh and Artemis) fighting the Tarrasque
(I just didn't let myself get hit, because I do agree that would have been an instant death sentence)
This is where my DM would lose his and summon another one after a short rest

Granted I now know that there are many things I had that shouldn't have been there and I will make changes to that

I don't know how you are supposed to have that much money at the beginning for armor so I will change that.

Thx so much XD
I really like this game (Have I covered everything??)

Ejay M-G said:

Heyy thx so much, would never have noticed that you could only use action surge once
And didn't know that some things didn't stack, my newbie group will be sad.

Will definitely have to make changes and take things out

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No problem, their are alot of rules and every starts somewhere.

Ejay M-G said:

But at least I will be playing the game properly tho, but as for the Tarrasque. That was a different story

Now I know I had a lot of things that shouldn't be there but bare with me while I explain myself with the Tarrasque

I didn't start the game next to the Tarrasque but 70 ft away. Granted I had help with my own built archer build called Artemis (another of my character)
Gilgamesh had haste granted to him by Artemis
Having 30 x 2 = 60 ft
Plus having that sweet dash of 60 ft being doubled from haste = 120 ft (Haste allows you to use dash as a bonus action) (It would suck if any of this part was false too)
So I would run into attacking range of the Tarrasque using up to 40ft dealing 4 attacks (only 1 or 2 would hit at a time)
With an attack roll of +5 (from the str modifier) and +1 from the sword being magical
And then I would use dash to move usually 100 ft away.

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Ok...lets us begin, lol..

I am going to tweak your idea to make it more efficient bit for explanation purposes.

Haste
http://dnd5e.wikia.com/wiki/Haste
- your speed is doubled 30 to 60
- It does not use your bonus action, it gives you a second action (like actions surge and they stack) but that action can only be used for attack, disengage, dash, hide, or use object (no spell casting)

So if your 60ft away and your movement is 60 then you can reach it in one turn with your doubled speed and attack.
1. You move in
2. You attack:
you said "lvl 9 and multi classed with ranger (fighter 4 & ranger 5)" with 20 strength (15 +2 racial for 16 at level 1, +2 level 4 fighter, +2 level 4 ranger so its possible to have maxed at 20 with your build, sure)
Character level 9 proficiency bonus is +4
Magic +1 weapon (sure)
Total = +10 to hit vs Tarrasque AC25 with 2 attacks (1 + 1 Extra attack from 5 level of Ranger)
We can do an average DPR to get an estimate here.
-- Your fighting melee with a shield and no horse has been mentioned to your max damage for a one handed weapon is [1d8]
-- You add your strength bonus to damage changing it to [1d8 + 5]
-- you have two attacks [1d8 + 5] + [1d8 + 5] or [2d8 +10]
-- your avarage role on an 8 sided dice is 4.5 so 2d8 is 9, +10 for the strength giving you and avearge DPR of 19 on 100% hit.
-- For adjusting damage for your chance to hit the Formula is:
--- AC minus your to hit +1 (because you don't need to beat AC just match it) to find numbers that will MISS. AC25 -(10 to hit +1) = 14 or lower misses
--- to find chance to hit subtract 14 missing roles from the possible 20 sides on a D20 = 6
--- Mutiply the result (6) by .05 (5% chance of rolling any one number on a 20 sided dice) = .30 % to hit
--- Multiply your 100% hit DPR by your % to hit, 19 x .3 = 5.7 so your Avarge DPR vs the Tarrasque (AC25) is 5.7 that is with two attacks. you get 1 action surge which is identical.
3. You move away. Here is where you lose me.
In order to move our of the Tarrasque's 40ft movement speen you need Dash because you only have 60ft even with your speed doubled.
You have already used your action to attack so you use your Haste action to do this.
When you move from 20ft to 25ft and leave the Tarrasque's threat range It gets an attack of oppertunity if you did no use the Disengage action or Ranger spell Zephyr Strike (which you did not mention)
-If we say it attacks:
-- Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +19 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: (4d6 + 10) bludgeoning damage.
If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 20 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone
--- Damage is 3.5 (avarage role for a 6 sided dice) x4 dice = 14 + 10 = 24
--- You said your character at level 9 was AC21 -[19+1] = 1 , 20 - 1 = 19 x .05 = 0.95 x 24 = Avarage Tarrasque single Tail strike DPR vs you (AC21) is 22.8
--- If your character has max hit points of 135 (Fighter 4d10 + Ranger 5d10 + Consiturion bonus +5x9) no toughness feat or you wouldn't have a way to have two stats at 20..
--- 135HP / 22.8 Trrasque DPR = 5.9 rounds you would are likely to live. Lets say your lucky and last 6.
--- Each failure means you have to make a DC20 strength save or you fall prone and your speed is halved. In which case you only have 30 movement and can't out run the Tarrasque
---- Your proficient with strenght saves with +5 strength and Character level 9 proficiency bonus is +4 = +9, 20 -(9+1) = 10 x .05 = .5 or 50% chance of failing or succeding each of 6 rounds.
---- Your knocked prone at the END of your turn 20ft away from the Tarrasque. It charges 20 of its 40ft movement and attacks all 5 attack
---- Total 160 DPR at AC21 same .95 modifier = 152DPR vs your max 135 health... so any failed save on those 5 rounds you would survive will kill you on its next turn.
-If we say you had Zephyr Strike which is (your concentration) and last for 10 rounds if you don't lose your consentraion to hit + haste archers (concentration):
-- 60ft in, attack, 60ft out. Tarrrasque dashes 80ft, you attack on your turn dash 60ft out... repeat.
--- As Fighter 4 / Ranger 5 you have 3 first level spell slots. Zephyr Strike is cast as a bonus action and lasts for 10 rounds you can do this for 30 rounds before the 6 sudden death.
--- Your Fighter 4 / Ranger 5 does Avarge DPR vs the Tarrasque (AC25) is 5.7 x 36 rounds +1 for action surge = 210.9 damage before the Tarrasgue kills him (actually not bad, lol)
--- The Tarrasgue has 676Hp your fighter is likely doing 211 leaving the Archer to do 465 in 36 rounds or 13 damage per round

So my problem with here at #3 is that its all dependent on your GM not reading this...

Legendary Actions
Tarrasque can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn. Tarrasque regains spent legendary actions at the start of their turn.

Attack.The tarrasque makes one claw attack or tail attack.
Move.The tarrasque moves up to half its speed.
Chomp (Costs 2 Actions).The tarrasque makes one bite attack or uses its Swallow.


So... actually a Tarrasque can move 40ft, dash 40ft, use a Legenary Action to move 20ft, and use the second legendary action after the archer to make a tail attack with 20ft reach so even if you ran 120ft away its killing your Fighter in 6 rounds or less. As a goliath fighter I don't know any way around this. In 6 rounds your fighter Action surges and does about 40 damage. So your archer has to do 636 damage to the Tarrasque. To save your Fighter, 106+ Damage per round to the Tarrasque. (Remember your fighter will avearage 5.7 damage per round)

Ejay M-G said:

(Forgot the numbers of dmg so just going to use them the middle number) Dealing like 8 DMG, but Gilgamesh was only supposed to keep him away from my other character Artemis, who was the one that had like 15 attack roll (this was from the double prof for being in the fav environment) (Is this actually true??) (I would be really sad if it wasn't)
Prof 3 x 2 = 6
Ranger and fighting style archery 2 + 2 = 4 (I think you said this doesn't stack)(I'm really sad but for the sake of explaining my battle)
Dex +5
Making a nice 15 attack roll without the roll for my Artemis (Archer class)
He dealt a good average of
Dex on dmg roll +5 x 4 = 20
Assimar activating Radiant souls +9 x 4 = 36
And then the actual bow dmg (Just made this middle number because I don't remember the actual numbers) +4 x 4 = 16

So per turn for my Archer, I did 82 dmg roughly per turn

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Lets asume your GM missed the very important text at the bottom.

4. So we have bought your Fighter/Ranger 36 rounds against the Tarrasque. In order for you duo to win you Archer needs to pull out and Avarage DPR of 13 Damage vs a 25AC if it CAN do that.
- Based on having Favored Turrain, a level 9 Ranger, Protector Aasimar with Radiant Soul +9 damage per attack for 10 rounds, once per long rest
- So how does the Archer stay out of melee with the Tarrasque? you mentioned Longstrider (lasts 1 hour non-consentraion), ok. That's 40 speed, the Tarrasque dashes you dash? Heavy crossbow (1d10) and a 95ft buffer?
- Neather Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain double your Proficiency bonus but its +4 at level 9, +2 for archery fighting style, +5 dexderity at 20? so +11 to hit with what I know.
- I don't know much about this character but with the above guesses...
--2 Attacks (Ranger lvl 5) with crowsbow [1d10] + [1d10], Dexderity of 20 [1d10 +5] + [1d10 +5] vs AC25 Tarrasque (Again not sure why your doing 4 attacks)
--[2d10 + 10] or 11+10 = 100% hit DPR of 21 ... not looking good... AC25-(11+1)= 13 misses, so 7 hits x .05 = .35 x 21 = 7.35 Avarage Damage Per round vs the Tarrasque for the Archer
-- But you do get 9 radiant damage for the first 10 rounds also at .35 so +3.15
--- Thats a total of 10.5 DPR for the first 10 rounds followed by the 26 rounds of 7.25 DPR which is short your 13 DPR requirement all the way accross.

All that said we are talking averages. Their is no accounting for bad GM rolls and Great player rolls. However in a 36 round fight averages would be stronger than your typical 10 round or less fights. It is however no where near 11 Tarrasques in 20 turns. We are talking one horrible GM day and one amazing Player day for one Tarrasgue.

Ejay M-G said:

(Also got to summon "Conjur animals" (Giant Owls), but then my Archer ran out of 3rd lvl spells because he only has 2 uses)
They didn't really attack but to just protect and move the two characters to safety

DMG including my Gil & Arty character this was a total of 90
So really the Tarrasque should have died somewhere around 8-10ish turns (676 divided by 90 = 7.5)

I only had 2 characters which were just my own (Gilgamesh and Artemis) fighting the Tarrasque
(I just didn't let myself get hit, because I do agree that would have been an instant death sentence)
This is where my DM would lose his and summon another one after a short rest

Granted I now know that there are many things I had that shouldn't have been there and I will make changes to that

I don't know how you are supposed to have that much money at the beginning for armor so I will change that.

Thx so much XD
I really like this game (Have I covered everything??)

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Well If it were me I would take a ride on those giant eagles and run like hell. Partly because they get a turn which means the Tarrasque gets a chance to use that third Legendary action and they are just going to make things worse. You could on the other hand summon those Giant eagles fly 60ft above the Tarrasque and have the archer shoot arrows at it for ...60 rounds.. land, summon again, fly back up and shot for about 8 more and possibly kill it. A Minor problem there is carrying at least 136 Crossbow bolts at1.5lbs for 20 and 1lbs per quiver so 17.5 lbs total. Your Biggest problem is finding GM willing to play out 70 rounds of you shooting arrows at a target that can't shoot back....ouch.

You can't do it without factoring in accuracy.
Here's a simple example, comparing the DPR of two otherwise identical fighters, one with GWM and the other with Polearm Master. The GWM has -5/+10, but the Polearm Master gets two attacks. While without considering accuracy it seems obvious (2d6+13 [20] vs. 1d10+1d4+6 [14]), watch what happens when you apply accuracy:

Now if we say enemies evenly have an AC between 10 and 18 (which actually weights it towards GWM. In reality higher ACs are more common, favouring Polearm more):
GWM Average: 7
Polearm Master Average: 8.4

In fact, for an even distribution across AC 10 to 18, Great Weapon Master only increases DPR by 1.

Found a Tie with fighter for First place that beats all other 1 Fight AC

Human Variant Forge Cleric
---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - Scale Mail AC14(Max3)
---16 Dex (AC17)
---Shield +2 (AC19)
---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC20)
---Shield of Faith spell +2
Total AC 22

I would assume that your ideal is that the max dpr and max defense character be the same character.meaning you need to choose between armor mastery and gwm/polearm ie when you have your fighter war cleric etc their with avg dpr of 22 and their ac is 1 lower due to no medium armor mastery or else they are sword and boarding for the ac and thus can use the armor feat. however in order for you to achieve this you are having a dex 16, using your feat for medium armor mastery (for +1 ac) and your ever present cleric of the forge helping out.

This brings up the point buy. dex 16 human. so they can be 16 str 16 dex 14 con 10 wis 8 int 8 cha if you are maximizing so assuming max hps for lvl 1. your fighter has 12 hps.
also since you bring up no plate since it costs 1500gp what are your assumptions for starting equipment? 200gp+background? fighter gear +background and you can sell everything at cost to swap around? either way scale mail is doable if you use a maul instead of a greatsword (10gp instead of 50gp)

Also a barbarian would have better survivability and damage in almost all cases vs a fighter at level 1. 1 less ac but 2 more hps, and resistance +2dmg for str attacks.

I would say at lvl 1 you are unlikely to be fighting magical attacks. so taking heavy armor mastery (+1str) with chain or splint you could drop your dex to 12 increase con to 16, increase wis to 14 for better spell saves. resulting in 1 more max hp. is the only way a defense fighter remains competitive the dr3 is a drastic increase in survivability even if you only count chainmail so 1 less ac.


fighter
defensive -
str 16
dex 12
con 16
wis 14
splint mail (17 ac)
forge +1
shield +2
defensive style +1
heavy armor mastery dr3 to blg,slsh.pierce
ac 21 dr3 wis save +2 13hps
attack 1d8+3 avg 7.5

offensive
ac 18
polearm/gwm and great weapon fighter style
1d10+3+1d4+3 reroll 1+2's so avg 9.3+6 = 15.3 avg dpr or 2d6+3+10 avg 21.3(not taking into account the previous gwm vs polearm comments on hit chance)

Barbarian
defensive -
str 10
dex 16
con 16
wis 14
scale armor (14 ac)
forge +1
shield +2
medium armor mastery +1 (dex)
ac 20 + 15hps + rage - resistance pierce blg slash
attack 1d8+3+2 = 9.5avg dpr

offensive
str 16
dex 14
con 16
wis 10
ac 17 +15hps +rage - resistances
1d10+5+1d4+5 so avg dpr 18 or 2d6+5+10 so avg dpr 21

ClaytonCross said:

Shield of Faith spell +2

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Does Shield of Faith stack with a shield?

ClaytonCross said:

Human Variant Monk (Possible AC16)
---Quarterstaff Versitial (1d10 + dex)
---16 Dex (1d10 + 3)
---Marial Arts (1d10 + 3)(1d4 + 3)
---Human Variant Feat: Magic Initiat, Warlock, Hex (1d10 + 3 + 1d6)(1d4 + 3 + 1d6)
DPR Range 10 - 32
DPR Average: 21

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A quarterstaff does 1d8 when wielded with 2 hands, not 1d10.

Also, you are using a bonus action to cast Hex, which means he doesn't get his bonus attack in the first round. Since most fights are pretty short that's a big impact on DPR.