Celestial Patron Warlock, Blade Pact

You could be... a Warforged Juggernaut.

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The heavy armour proficiency requirement makes that option a bit steep.

Tortle is a much better option. AC 17, but it's free of proficiency requirements. and +2 strength. But I really don't think the OP is looking for weird races.

Paul Farquhar said:

The heavy armour proficiency requirement makes that option a bit steep.

Tortle is a much better option. AC 17, but it's free of proficiency requirements. and +2 strength. But I really don't think the OP is looking for weird races.

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Sure I understand the OP might not like that...I would be more hesitant to play Tortle than a Warforge though.

I would also point out Warforged Juggernaut gets +2 strength and +1 constitution both stats that are useful to a strength based high hit point bladelock the OP wanted where the Tortle is +2 strenght and +1 wisdom. The Warforged is AC STARTS at 18 but will increase to AC22 as the game goes on where Tortle is always going to be an AC17 without the shield that the OP does want with the staff...

2 Warforged...0 Tortle

However with further consideration the Warforged Juggernaut may not be the optimal choice for what the OP wants and might except. The Warforged Envoy sublrace choosing Integrated Tool:disguise kit could look completely human and gets +1 con and +1 in two attributes of choice. Choosing Strength and Charisma would allow 16 in all three with the point buy system the OP is using.

Stats: Str 16 Dex 8 Con16 Int8 Wis8 Cha16 and AC18 (scaling with proficiency bonus)

Maniacally its likely the most optimized build for the OPS request I think you can get... however if the OPs GM doesn't allow eberron races until official release or at all, the OP doesn't like "weird races", or doesn't like the "angelic empowered construct" mesh with their design (like the shield and staff design)... You can't say I didn't try and get a pretty decent build. It also might be a little too optimized, as it has nothing in dex, Int, or Wis which makes since as a Veteran Mercenary War Mashine but I am not sure how well it holds up to the herald side but then again if we are talking Herald of Apocalypse a Mighty Diety empowered messenger and might hero it works fine.

ClaytonCross said:

Sure I understand the OP might not like that...I would be more hesitant to play Tortle than a Warforge though.

I would also point out Warforged Juggernaut gets +2 strength and +1 constitution both stats that are useful to a strength based high hit point bladelock the OP wanted where the Tortle is +2 strenght and +1 wisdom. The Warforged is AC STARTS at 18 but will increase to AC22 as the game goes on where Tortle is always going to be an AC17 without the shield that the OP does want with the staff...

2 Warforged...0 Tortle

However with further consideration the Warforged Juggernaut may not be the optimal choice for what the OP wants and might except. The Warforged Envoy sublrace choosing Integrated Tool:disguise kit could look completely human and gets +1 con and +1 in two attributes of choice. Choosing Strength and Charisma would allow 16 in all three with the point buy system the OP is using.

Stats: Str 16 Dex 8 Con16 Int8 Wis8 Cha16 and AC18 (scaling with proficiency bonus)

Maniacally its likely the most optimized build for the OPS request I think you can get... however if the OPs GM doesn't allow eberron races until official release or at all, the OP doesn't like "weird races", or doesn't like the "angelic empowered construct" mesh with their design (like the shield and staff design)... You can't say I didn't try and get a pretty decent build. It also might be a little too optimized, as it has nothing in dex, Int, or Wis which makes since as a Veteran Mercenary War Mashine but I am not sure how well it holds up to the herald side but then again if we are talking Herald of Apocalypse a Mighty Diety empowered messenger and might hero it works fine.

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Warforged REQUIRES you to take at least one level of fighter. Which makes being a warforged pretty redundant, since you could play a human in full plate (possibly magically enhanced). The Tortle can be a single classed warlock and still be AC 17. I would say that was an overwhelming victory for the Tortle, since multi-classing is always an undesirable cludge.

I really GREATLY appreciate all of the excellent recommendations. I think I am honing in on what was discussed. Even selecting some options outside of recommendations, I considered the counterpoints very carefully!

To start:

V. Human (for story and image). I am going with moderately armored feat to start. Now the question of flavor and choice. Prior to 4th or 5th level, there is no mechanical reason to take a staff. A mace does just as well. I have considered starting with mace and switching over shortly after getting polearm master. More likely, I am planning to just miss out on shield and go with the image of a staff wielder.

Here is the general story:

**A hardened mercenary forms a pact and is mentored by an angel who is tethered to the material plane.**

The alliance is one in which white magic is taught for the price of being the angel's herald/prophet/emissary/hand in the world.

The mercenary helps the angel punish evil as well as those who betrayed them both!

Celestial pact warlock with a staff and armor. Focuses on melee later.

2nd level take one level in divine soul sorcerer and grab detect evil and good, shield spell.

Also will take comprehend languages. Found out I can make scrolls of these utility spells! I believe scrolls will really help me achieve what I want here with limited slots. I will select a fair number of utility spells that a Gandalf inspired move and shaker would want: comprehend languages, detect magic (maybe), detect evil and good...and others.

Also will take thaumaturgy as cantrip for divine soul sorcerer (flavor). He can make his voice boom and ground shake. Better yet, he will get a trumpet like a herald of an angel should have to use with that cantrip!

Will take ALL social skills and friends cantrip. Will be good at persuading, intimidating or manipulating in the name of lawful (angry) good!

And if all else fails....wield that staff. Metal head in shape of clenched fist. It opens fingers if he casts light to hold orb of light and clenches into fist if tensions arise!

And all that thought in the toilet when I die at first level!
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UTILITY CASTING

So why multiclass into divine soul? I know it may have not been advised but it allows me to know the thaumaturgy cantrip, fire bolt and a few other fun ones (including guidance if I wish). It also allows me to know a few more spells. Again, I know very few and if I want those that have utility, I will need to do something. One selected will be a detect evil and good spell (again flavor).

It will add two spell slots--1st level. It will add the saving throw bonus to roll (good since I have not real plan to maintain concentration!). Just as importantly though, I believe it is very thematically related. A free cure spell that can be upcast will also be good perhaps in a pinch.


Durability:
There is another issue here. Durability is the big problem as is AC. The MOST logical course is to go fighter for one level and perhaps take magic initiate. (This is a temptation). But I am thinking about a strange combination of things to work here. If I take sorcerer I could potentially take 'shield spell' and use up to two times. If I combine this with the healing of the celestial warlock on a bonus action 'healing light.' Now if I go against the grain and take 'fiendish vigor' at least in early levels, and then couple this with healing light and occasional shield spell, I think there is a lot of durability added for a 1st tier character. Being able to regenerate 8 HP at will with 2d6 of healing on a bonus action even during combat seems a reasonable amount of durability for anyone but a barbarian or fighter. And since one is temporary, healing light is "additive."

HERALD/PARTY FACE

I think ALL social skills and friends where appropriate is going to be fun.

INVOCATIONS

this might seem odd...but, yeah. Thinking fiendish vigor and eldritch sight to start moving to thirsting blade and eldritch smite with eldritch sight at 5th. At 6th? May want to swap out eldritch sight. I would really miss misty visions and mask of many faces however, so have to think hard about that. IF I took detect magic for a sorcerer spell, and made a few scrolls, I could see doing mask of many faces instead of eldtritch sight.

ABILITY SCORES

Man. this is a source of tension. Right now I have 16, 10, 14, 10, 8, 16 (including the moderately armored strength bonus). I am tempted to be less charismatic or strong for a 12 Dex but not sure if I would regret that later...

Higher level feats probably need to be ASIs...8th (9th) and 12th (13th) if I even ever got to the upper tier that is!



This is not final so any redirection and discussion is still fun. Fire away.

I really would not use a shield and the polearm master offhand attack. I actually would consider not taking polearm master at all. Bonus action cost is high. Feat cost is high. I am not sure it pays off. Especiqlly if you struggle to keep hex on all the time with your low +2 con bonus.

Paul Farquhar said:

Warforged REQUIRES you to take at least one level of fighter. Which makes being a warforged pretty redundant, since you could play a human in full plate (possibly magically enhanced). The Tortle can be a single classed warlock and still be AC 17. I would say that was an overwhelming victory for the Tortle, since multi-classing is always an undesirable cludge.

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Sounds like "I hate multi-class so anything not muti-classing is better no matter what" hate to me. Tortle's AC17 CAN NEVER BE IMPROVED if your not using a shield.

Tortle's Natural Armor
Due to your shell and the shape of your body, you are ill-suited to wearing armor. Your shell provides ample protection, however; it gives you a base AC of 17 (your Dexterity modifier doesn’t affect this number). You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield’s bonus as normal.

Warforged armor provides a bonus of 16 +2 at level one...18 > 17 ... and its 16+6 for a total of AC24 without a shield at end game (and it CAN use any shield making that a pointless counter point). Magic Full Plate +3 is only AC21...so with a no shield requirement what magic armor are you comparing that beats getting the highest defense armor in the game at level 1 for free? If you want to complain, complain because its too good or thematically bad for the build. Mechanically its awesome and way better than Tortle's natural armor.

OP said the was thinking of multi-classing anyway so I was just providing input on a path based on stated goals. Ultimately the next post went multi-class sorcerer to the multi-class happened anyway and since it was for spell diversity instead of Pact of the Blade... I think the OP is better off going Pact of the Tome with shillelagh as a warlock spell and picking up booming blade so if in melee he bonus casts shillelagh, uses the action for booming blade and goes back to casting. Then if the enemy follows they get booming blade damage. ...but point being that multi-classing is not an argument in contrast to the OPs request or an invalid method for achieving the stated goal. So using that as your only bases just says your not posting on the right thread. You want to hate on poeple who multi-class go to a multi-class hater thread. They are everywhere all the time! But if your coming to "request for" thread you should honer the guidelines of thread set by the OP and make suggestions supported mechanically and with story compatibility design reasoning.

Tortle is not a bad idea. Warforged was at least a better supported idea aimed at the same goal. Bring the multi-class personal hate bias that over runs these threads is an off topic distraction. Human variant is ultimately winning out not because Tortle or Warforged are bad idea but because with all the information the OP received its clear that the Warlock/Sorcerer muti-class was always a consideration, the moderately armored feat a way to deal with the aspect Tortle and Warforged are aimed at, and a slight change in direction and priorities to more of a versatile caster than a melee fighter. This actually makes AC a little less important because keeping at range from melee enemies will reduce damage significantly and with the stated HP plans and shield spell, something the OP has considered and has some level of plan to deal with.

UngeheuerLich said:

I really would not use a shield and the polearm master offhand attack. I actually would consider not taking polearm master at all. Bonus action cost is high. Feat cost is high. I am not sure it pays off. Especiqlly if you struggle to keep hex on all the time with your low +2 con bonus.

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No, I get it. And you are right with what you consider. However, it is an image thing. I want the image and it is not "logical" from an optimization standpoint but am happy to look through that lens too.

You are very right: Bonus actions matter. For the most part after level 4 or 5 I am thinking my extra polearm attack will fill it...I am on the fence about hex generally at higher levels.

My use of it early on might be for melee but i can see cursing someone's strength and then shoving them off a bridge...occasionally I do not know if it will be a mainstay.

More useful for me would be misty step. Hopefully I know I will bug out before committing to the full attack routine with the extra polearm attack!

I guess its like this: they made it impossible to have everything. AND if you have a clear image and theme in mind, it gets even harder!

Ancalagon said:

Indeed. You can, at best, cast one defensive spell and keep spell slot in reserve for when things go terribly wrong. If you are reaaaaly eager to use Eldrich smite, you`ll get one a fight and that`s it.

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what are your thoughts about scrolls? I just stumbled over this and thought it would be one way to help a warlock have room for less used but very timely spells here or there (e.g. comprehend languages) or even an escape route.

Thoughts?

Warpiglet said:

what are your thoughts about scrolls? I just stumbled over this and thought it would be one way to help a warlock have room for less used but very timely spells here or there (e.g. comprehend languages) or even an escape route.

Thoughts?

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It's only a viable option if scrolls are cheap and plentiful.... this will be very table dependent.

Ancalagon said:

It's only a viable option if scrolls are cheap and plentiful.... this will be very table dependent.

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Looking in Xanathar's it looks like you can make a 1st level scroll IF you have Arcana skill and the material components plus 25 GP.

If this is true, I can see myself saving gold for this purpose while so many argue there is no use for gold!

I think relying on purchase or finding them is a riskier path. But a 1st level scroll is what I would usually be after and its a one day project...

This may make my favorite class a bit more flexible...we shall see.