Celestial Patron Warlock, Blade Pact

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Looking in Xanathar's it looks like you can make a 1st level scroll IF you have Arcana skill and the material components plus 25 GP.

If this is true, I can see myself saving gold for this purpose while so many argue there is no use for gold!

I think relying on purchase or finding them is a riskier path. But a 1st level scroll is what I would usually be after and its a one day project...

This may make my favorite class a bit more flexible...we shall see.

Woah! I hadn't seen that - I had to get up and go read the rules myself.

Well it has to be a spell known, and warlocks don't have a ton of those. But still. First level spells are cheap, and 2nd-3rd are reasonable (4 and up - yikes!)

It's... an interesting option, but it's still a bit limited - first by the number of spell known (which is a big limit for a warlock - unlike a wizard, you won't learn a "just in case" spell you use once every 2 levels!), then by the logistics of using a scroll in a hurry. Definitely better than nothing though, I'm going to have to look at "demon leg" to see if he should get a scroll or two.

edit: Prime candidate is invisibility... but I can't afford it :p *maybe* hex at level 1?
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Sounds like "I hate multi-class so anything not muti-classing is better no matter what" hate to me. Tortle's AC17 CAN NEVER BE IMPROVED if your not using a shield.

Tortle's Natural Armor
Due to your shell and the shape of your body, you are ill-suited to wearing armor. Your shell provides ample protection, however; it gives you a base AC of 17 (your Dexterity modifier doesn’t affect this number). You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield’s bonus as normal.

Warforged armor provides a bonus of 16 +2 at level one...18 > 17 ... and its 16+6 for a total of AC24 without a shield at end game (and it CAN use any shield making that a pointless counter point). Magic Full Plate +3 is only AC21...so with a no shield requirement what magic armor are you comparing that beats getting the highest defense armor in the game at level 1 for free? If you want to complain, complain because its too good or thematically bad for the build. Mechanically its awesome and way better than Tortle's natural armor.

OP said the was thinking of multi-classing anyway so I was just providing input on a path based on stated goals. Ultimately the next post went multi-class sorcerer to the multi-class happened anyway and since it was for spell diversity instead of Pact of the Blade... I think the OP is better off going Pact of the Tome with shillelagh as a warlock spell and picking up booming blade so if in melee he bonus casts shillelagh, uses the action for booming blade and goes back to casting. Then if the enemy follows they get booming blade damage. ...but point being that multi-classing is not an argument in contrast to the OPs request or an invalid method for achieving the stated goal. So using that as your only bases just says your not posting on the right thread. You want to hate on poeple who multi-class go to a multi-class hater thread. They are everywhere all the time! But if your coming to "request for" thread you should honer the guidelines of thread set by the OP and make suggestions supported mechanically and with story compatibility design reasoning.

Tortle is not a bad idea. Warforged was at least a better supported idea aimed at the same goal. Bring the multi-class personal hate bias that over runs these threads is an off topic distraction. Human variant is ultimately winning out not because Tortle or Warforged are bad idea but because with all the information the OP received its clear that the Warlock/Sorcerer muti-class was always a consideration, the moderately armored feat a way to deal with the aspect Tortle and Warforged are aimed at, and a slight change in direction and priorities to more of a versatile caster than a melee fighter. This actually makes AC a little less important because keeping at range from melee enemies will reduce damage significantly and with the stated HP plans and shield spell, something the OP has considered and has some level of plan to deal with.

1. Warforged are also unable to wear armour. So that +3 full plate of acid resistance you just found is out the window. So benefit over human with heavy armour proficency = negligible.

2. Warforged are still UA. If there armour class isn't nerfed before the final version, I will be very surprised. See: Githzeri.
 

Warpiglet

Adventurer
Woah! I hadn't seen that - I had to get up and go read the rules myself.

Well it has to be a spell known, and warlocks don't have a ton of those. But still. First level spells are cheap, and 2nd-3rd are reasonable (4 and up - yikes!)

It's... an interesting option, but it's still a bit limited - first by the number of spell known (which is a big limit for a warlock - unlike a wizard, you won't learn a "just in case" spell you use once every 2 levels!), then by the logistics of using a scroll in a hurry. Definitely better than nothing though, I'm going to have to look at "demon leg" to see if he should get a scroll or two.

edit: Prime candidate is invisibility... but I can't afford it :p *maybe* hex at level 1?

that spells known hurts. its also an incentive to take an appropriate second class or magic initiate.

In the case here (angel leg ;)) divine sorcerer is not cheesy and neither is bard. hell, bard would get him the damn trumpet!

in the first case, he would get three spells known (likely cure light wounds for free) and two others. I would be going utility detect spells most likely.

I dunno...I think this may change things for me a bit.

As an aside, the bard level would yield 4 spells known AND the ability to cast them as rituals...that would really be interesting, flavorful and thematic. I just can't help wanting to grab that darn thaumaturgy with divine soul!
 

Warpiglet

Adventurer
Lastly, someone upthread mentioned cleric.

A single level of life cleric is also tempting...despite the painful painful need for 13 or more in wisdom. I am having trouble thematically in a sense though as I did not see the character as particularly pious in his earlier life...

but mechanically and thematically in some respects it would make life much much easier. Armor and freeing up a feat would be fab...

decisions decisions

I would have to reflavor cleric to some extent for it make sense. Could he be part of a secret order that serves angels? I would not want it to be the classic religious priest per se as this is not my vision for him or his background (I am all about single class clerics in AD&D 1e however, my old favorite)...
 
Last edited:

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Ive already suggested it in your first thread about this character some months ago, but maybe you could go with a low-charisma build?
Celestial warlock requires some for its features, but 14 should be enough. I'd go with a V.Human 14 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 8 wis, 10 int and 13 cha. +1 str and cha from human, +1 str from moderately armored for 16/14/12/8/10/14. Half-plate +shield for (eventually) 19 AC.
Soldier background
Green-flame blade as basic attack routine and defensive/mobility buffs as spells.
Invocations: Beguiling Influence (thematic for a prophet), Eldritch Sight

Take ASIs to increase str/cha, maybe polearm master eventually, but I'd favor Warcaster for the AoO cantrip.
 
Last edited:

Warpiglet

Adventurer
Ive already suggested it in your first thread about this character some months ago, but maybe you could go with a low-charisma build?
Celestial warlock requires some for its features, but 14 should be enough. I'd go with a V.Human 14 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 8 wis, 10 int and 12 cha. +1 str and cha from human, +1 str from moderately armored for 16/14/12/8/10/14. Half-plate +shield for (eventually) 19 AC.
Soldier background
Green-flame blade as basic attack routine and defensive/mobility buffs as spells.
Invocations: Beguiling Influence (thematic for a prophet), Eldritch Sight

Take ASIs to increase str/cha, maybe polearm master eventually, but I'd favor Warcaster for the AoO cantrip.
Yeah. I am going to look at his again actually. I really like GFB quickened but would serve here too
 

I would have to reflavor cleric to some extent for it make sense. Could he be part of a secret order that serves angels? I would not want it to be the classic religious priest per se as this is not my vision for him or his background

That's really a matter for your DM, but the PHB does not require clerics to be "ordained priests".
 

smbakeresq

Explorer
I understand. The biggest issue with Bladelocks is that due to not having access to heavy armor, you end up focusing on 4 stats STR, DEX, CON, and CHA. Which is why the Hexblade is so popular because "Hex Warrior" gives you proficiency with medium armor & shields so you don't need strength and can focus on a DEX, CON, and CHA. Then it also gives martial weapons proficiency, so if your take human variant with Heavily Armored and focus on STR, CON, and CHA, THEN it lets you "channel" charisma so you don't need a 16 strength for combat but just 13 strength for Chain mail then focusing on CON and CHA.
Suddenly your starting with Str:13 Dex:10 Con:16 Int:8 Wis:10 Cha:16 and AC:16 or 18 with a shield … but that doesn't really fit your concept.

tomb of levistus is a once per short rest ability, so your not going to be able to rely on it for anything more than an emergency save. It takes you out of the fight next round which give everyone a chance you heal you but you can't move or heal your self while incapacitated so if the enemies just wait they can kill you next turn if your really close enough to death to use it. At that point your using your action do delay your death one round INSTEAD of damaging or killing the enemy attacking you. IF enemies leave you for other targets, your allies heal you before you head back into combat, and/or your allies can kill them on what would have to be the last turn of combat... then sure its good... but that's pretty … niche … in my opinion. It's also less useful at lower levels when your more likely to one shot enemies or be one shot instead, your allies healing spells don't recover you much, and the temporary hit points your getting can be wiped out before your next turn killing you in your iceblock anyway meaning it just wasted your turn. Fire spells do double damage and are pretty common so that could be a problem too depending on enemies. At level 9 however your getting 90 temp hit points so unless your fighting a Red Dragon, Fire Elemental, or Demon it should work pretty good. I really think this spell is week (possibly just a bad choice at level 5) to start but gets stronger the higher level you are (lvl9+ its a solid pick... maybe level 7 … in my opinion, the difference of 20-40 more hp then is significant).

"Angelic" Vigor is ok but it doesn't stack with Armor of Agathys which damages enemies that hit you as well so I would consider it better. You can use it on turns after you lose Armor of Agathys but because your recovering your spell slots on a short rest you will likely have Armor of Agathys every fight adding to your damage and defense. Anytime you cast "Angelic" Vigor on later turns to increase your health your losing a chance for damage. At early levels your likely to kill one enemy per turn so the trade off of losing a turn adding 5-8 temp hp vs killing an enemy that does 5-8 HP the turn you cast is seems like a lose to me when you could have prevented the same damage and be one enemy down by just attacking instead. You can't get it until level 2 and at level 3 Armor of Agathys increases to 10 temp HP and damage increasing its effectiveness. Keep in mind you can re-skin Armor of Agathys and change the damage per DMG to something relevant like radiant then alt level 3 two week enemies might die hitting you. I understand the draw … I just personally believe it looks good but in practice "Angelic" Vigor is a "trap choice". If you feel a need for "Angelic" Vigor thematically I understand but then I would recommend dropping Armor of Agathys for Charm Person which might fit your herald design a bit more. Also, Charm person has an interesting side effect defensively people over look. If your group focuses on a single target you can charm a second target attack you. It can freely attack your allies but it can't attack you its hurt by an ally and makes its save. If your allies are ranged and 40ft away it means at the very least the target wastes a turn. I also like it for defense against in party pvp and charm effects. For example, a vampire charms an ally and says "fight for me", you charm ally and attack the vampire. The Ally IS charmed twice and the stronger charm only overrides if their is conflict. Vampire charm has no spell level as an innate ability so again your ally will not attack you and must run off to find a valid target giving you and your range party members time to kill the vampire without having to kill your charmed fellow party member.

I think considering combat initiation aspects of invocations Mask of Many Faces or One with the shadows may help you find invocations that while not "melee centric" still have viable combat applications. Consider that hiding in the shadow of a tree that cast across a road or looking like an ally would allow you to get in melee range on round one and could mean two additional rounds of engaging in melee where you might be otherwise running 120ft to close the gap on range opponents and perhaps even a third if you get a "surprise round" which is not technically a thing but if enemies are under surprised condition, realistically is. Early rounds matter the most particularly at low levels where your dropping bodies every round and spending those trying to get to the enemy so you can engage in melee to begin is a huge combat loss. I think consider utility spells that deal with that instead of attack from range will do you well since your design is going to be heavily built for melee and not being in melee means that is all waste...

I am curious what your current planned picks for level 2 invocations are?

Multi-Classing divine sorcerer or bard would be fine, Warlocks multi-class well but I would avoid doing more than a single level of one until after level 9 warlock because it will slow your progression and your getting the most bang for one level of full caster. Divine Soul Sorcerer's "Favored by the Gods" would be good for a fighter but it begs the question, why the angry angel is your patron if you already have divinity in you blood? If its imparted to you as a gift from the patron I guess but it seems redundant to the warlock abilities the patron is already giving you... Bard Collage of swords would give you medium armor and you can use your quarterstaff as focus for your bard spells. Despite its name its not dedicated to sharp pointy weapons and works well with the idea your training to fight melee, learning arcane, and if after level 9 you wanted to grab a few more levels Dueling fighting style would add +2 damage to your staff as your only weapon if your using a shield (you might convince your GM to let two-weapon fighting apply to the but end attack of polearm master) and the +10 speed with Flourishes at level 3 bard would all be mechanically good while being fluffy with your herald/prophet who fights in close combat... That's again just my view on it.


Regarding shields and quarterstaffs... Bucklers are actually used with spears … I couldn't find anything IRL for quarterstaffs
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Gladiatoria_group
View attachment 100634
View attachment 100635

I did find this as a visual on my previous stated idea... I might have made the shield smaller though, block with the shield twist for the strike. I do HEMA and can see how this could work. Using sword and shield its not uncommon to engage the weapon with a shield then strike while the weapon is bound. you would just have more power for binding the enemy weapon and the attack would be a twist perhaps predictable vertical strike. Also, not good against other shielded opponents because of the angle of attack favors the enemies shield.
View attachment 100636

Shields also come in a type used by those in a phalanx. The Shield has a strap for your neck, and then would have a strap for your left forearm as phalanx’s were always “right-handed.” Essentially you are making a quarter staff a blunt spear.

My argument (and in my game) to use PAM you have to have both hands on the weapon as you are are striking quickly with the haft/other end. That’s extremely difficult if only holding the weapon in one-hand, try it.

I also let PAM work with a spear if the spear is of sufficient length used to 2 hands.

To eliminate this problem with your PC I would just let you use the stats of a Longspear or halberd but make your weapon an Iron Rod, like the old Devas used to wield, bludgeoning damage. Make the weight 10 lbs. I would make you draw it also, or find a picture.


On your build since durability and defense are your weaknesses you need to get into melee, strike and then get out of there so you don’t get hit. Consider mobility, it eliminates bonus action conflicts and gets you out of harms way.
 

smbakeresq

Explorer
I understand. The biggest issue with Bladelocks is that due to not having access to heavy armor, you end up focusing on 4 stats STR, DEX, CON, and CHA. Which is why the Hexblade is so popular because "Hex Warrior" gives you proficiency with medium armor & shields so you don't need strength and can focus on a DEX, CON, and CHA. Then it also gives martial weapons proficiency, so if your take human variant with Heavily Armored and focus on STR, CON, and CHA, THEN it lets you "channel" charisma so you don't need a 16 strength for combat but just 13 strength for Chain mail then focusing on CON and CHA.
Suddenly your starting with Str:13 Dex:10 Con:16 Int:8 Wis:10 Cha:16 and AC:16 or 18 with a shield … but that doesn't really fit your concept.

tomb of levistus is a once per short rest ability, so your not going to be able to rely on it for anything more than an emergency save. It takes you out of the fight next round which give everyone a chance you heal you but you can't move or heal your self while incapacitated so if the enemies just wait they can kill you next turn if your really close enough to death to use it. At that point your using your action do delay your death one round INSTEAD of damaging or killing the enemy attacking you. IF enemies leave you for other targets, your allies heal you before you head back into combat, and/or your allies can kill them on what would have to be the last turn of combat... then sure its good... but that's pretty … niche … in my opinion. It's also less useful at lower levels when your more likely to one shot enemies or be one shot instead, your allies healing spells don't recover you much, and the temporary hit points your getting can be wiped out before your next turn killing you in your iceblock anyway meaning it just wasted your turn. Fire spells do double damage and are pretty common so that could be a problem too depending on enemies. At level 9 however your getting 90 temp hit points so unless your fighting a Red Dragon, Fire Elemental, or Demon it should work pretty good. I really think this spell is week (possibly just a bad choice at level 5) to start but gets stronger the higher level you are (lvl9+ its a solid pick... maybe level 7 … in my opinion, the difference of 20-40 more hp then is significant).

"Angelic" Vigor is ok but it doesn't stack with Armor of Agathys which damages enemies that hit you as well so I would consider it better. You can use it on turns after you lose Armor of Agathys but because your recovering your spell slots on a short rest you will likely have Armor of Agathys every fight adding to your damage and defense. Anytime you cast "Angelic" Vigor on later turns to increase your health your losing a chance for damage. At early levels your likely to kill one enemy per turn so the trade off of losing a turn adding 5-8 temp hp vs killing an enemy that does 5-8 HP the turn you cast is seems like a lose to me when you could have prevented the same damage and be one enemy down by just attacking instead. You can't get it until level 2 and at level 3 Armor of Agathys increases to 10 temp HP and damage increasing its effectiveness. Keep in mind you can re-skin Armor of Agathys and change the damage per DMG to something relevant like radiant then alt level 3 two week enemies might die hitting you. I understand the draw … I just personally believe it looks good but in practice "Angelic" Vigor is a "trap choice". If you feel a need for "Angelic" Vigor thematically I understand but then I would recommend dropping Armor of Agathys for Charm Person which might fit your herald design a bit more. Also, Charm person has an interesting side effect defensively people over look. If your group focuses on a single target you can charm a second target attack you. It can freely attack your allies but it can't attack you its hurt by an ally and makes its save. If your allies are ranged and 40ft away it means at the very least the target wastes a turn. I also like it for defense against in party pvp and charm effects. For example, a vampire charms an ally and says "fight for me", you charm ally and attack the vampire. The Ally IS charmed twice and the stronger charm only overrides if their is conflict. Vampire charm has no spell level as an innate ability so again your ally will not attack you and must run off to find a valid target giving you and your range party members time to kill the vampire without having to kill your charmed fellow party member.

I think considering combat initiation aspects of invocations Mask of Many Faces or One with the shadows may help you find invocations that while not "melee centric" still have viable combat applications. Consider that hiding in the shadow of a tree that cast across a road or looking like an ally would allow you to get in melee range on round one and could mean two additional rounds of engaging in melee where you might be otherwise running 120ft to close the gap on range opponents and perhaps even a third if you get a "surprise round" which is not technically a thing but if enemies are under surprised condition, realistically is. Early rounds matter the most particularly at low levels where your dropping bodies every round and spending those trying to get to the enemy so you can engage in melee to begin is a huge combat loss. I think consider utility spells that deal with that instead of attack from range will do you well since your design is going to be heavily built for melee and not being in melee means that is all waste...

I am curious what your current planned picks for level 2 invocations are?

Multi-Classing divine sorcerer or bard would be fine, Warlocks multi-class well but I would avoid doing more than a single level of one until after level 9 warlock because it will slow your progression and your getting the most bang for one level of full caster. Divine Soul Sorcerer's "Favored by the Gods" would be good for a fighter but it begs the question, why the angry angel is your patron if you already have divinity in you blood? If its imparted to you as a gift from the patron I guess but it seems redundant to the warlock abilities the patron is already giving you... Bard Collage of swords would give you medium armor and you can use your quarterstaff as focus for your bard spells. Despite its name its not dedicated to sharp pointy weapons and works well with the idea your training to fight melee, learning arcane, and if after level 9 you wanted to grab a few more levels Dueling fighting style would add +2 damage to your staff as your only weapon if your using a shield (you might convince your GM to let two-weapon fighting apply to the but end attack of polearm master) and the +10 speed with Flourishes at level 3 bard would all be mechanically good while being fluffy with your herald/prophet who fights in close combat... That's again just my view on it.


Regarding shields and quarterstaffs... Bucklers are actually used with spears … I couldn't find anything IRL for quarterstaffs
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Gladiatoria_group
View attachment 100634
View attachment 100635

I did find this as a visual on my previous stated idea... I might have made the shield smaller though, block with the shield twist for the strike. I do HEMA and can see how this could work. Using sword and shield its not uncommon to engage the weapon with a shield then strike while the weapon is bound. you would just have more power for binding the enemy weapon and the attack would be a twist perhaps predictable vertical strike. Also, not good against other shielded opponents because of the angle of attack favors the enemies shield.
View attachment 100636

Shields also come in a type used by those in a phalanx. The Shield has a strap for your neck, and then would have a strap for your left forearm as phalanx’s were always “right-handed.” Essentially you are making a quarter staff a blunt spear.

My argument (and in my game) to use PAM you have to have both hands on the weapon as you are are striking quickly with the haft/other end. That’s extremely difficult if only holding the weapon in one-hand, try it.

I also let PAM work with a spear if the spear is of sufficient length used to 2 hands.

To eliminate this problem with your PC I would just let you use the stats of a Longspear or halberd but make your weapon an Iron Rod, like the old Devas used to wield, bludgeoning damage. Make the weight 10 lbs. I would make you draw it also, or find a picture.


On your build since durability and defense are your weaknesses you need to get into melee, strike and then get out of there so you don’t get hit. Consider mobility, it eliminates bonus action conflicts and gets you out of harms way.
 

And my only problem with warlock is that they make it just barely too tight. I think they are one spell a day and one invocation behind at all levels of play and those two boosts would be nice.

I ran a comparison of wizard versus warlock spellcasting for a friend. The interesting thing is that if you add up total number of spell levels available (including Arcane Recovery, Spell Mastery, Mystic Arcanum and Eldritch Master), assuming the design assumption of 2 short rests per day, the totals for the two classes are very comparable. Some levels wizard is higher, some levels warlock is higher, but overall neither is higher. Contrary to popular belief, warlock really is designed as a full caster. Of course there are differences. The wizard gets more low-level spells; the warlock gets more higher level spells. The wizard eventually gets and extra 6th and 7th level spell; the warlock doesn't. But if you compare a Pact of the Tome (which I did, as it is the most comparable) the warlock ends up with more and more flexible cantrips and rituals, as well some more free at-wills through their invocations, and a better at-will attack. The wizard gets more spells prepared (though the other ways that a (particularly Pact of the Tome) warlock gets access to spells actually can balance that out too), and a way better spell list. Their subclasses are comparable in power so I didn't bother taking them into account. Other than the different yet equivalent in power in spell recovery mechanics, the differences amount to wizard = better spell selection; warlock = more at-will magic, better at-will attack, and better HD and armaments.

Which tells me that warlock could probably actually be balanced with wizard even if I nerf Agonizing Blast to how it was probably initially intended as only applying to one roll.

Of course, if the number of short rests you get in an adventuring day differs significantly from the design assumption of two, the balance becomes less equivalent, but that's true of many classes.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top