Ideas for options that use both Strength and Dexterity

I rather like the idea of houseruling how finesse weapons work. One suggestion above was to keep STR to damage even on finesse weapons.

I've been thinking of keeping DEX to finesse damage, but with a cap of twice the STR bonus. That way, a fighter with 12 or 13 STR would never get more than +2 damage with his finesse attacks, even if his DEX was very high. And a fighter with 10 STR would always get +0 damage to finesse attacks, same as he gets to regular attacks.

Kobold Avenger said:

So going back to the idea of the feat I first thought of:

Balanced Fighting Technique
Perquisite Strength 13 or higher, and Dexterity 13 or higher
In combat there's the need a for speed and accuracy or brute force depending on the situation, you know when the right situations apply for either.
-Once per round (or maybe by using your reaction) when you miss with a melee attack: If it was an attack that used your strength bonus, you may re-roll using your dexterity bonus. If it was an attack using your dexterity bonus, you may re-roll using your strength bonus.
-When you hit with with a melee attack with advantage: If you add your strength bonus to the damage roll you may add your dexterity bonus, if you add your dexterity bonus to the damage roll you may add your strength bonus.
-When wielding at least one melee weapon and no shield you get a +1 bonus to AC.

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The phrase "once per round" tends to confuse people who argue that it's not clear whether you're talking combat round or a creature's round. So I'd stick to either reaction or even once per turn.

Ganders said:

I rather like the idea of houseruling how finesse weapons work. One suggestion above was to keep STR to damage even on finesse weapons.

I've been thinking of keeping DEX to finesse damage, but with a cap of twice the STR bonus. That way, a fighter with 12 or 13 STR would never get more than +2 damage with his finesse attacks, even if his DEX was very high. And a fighter with 10 STR would always get +0 damage to finesse attacks, same as he gets to regular attacks.

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Which is in line of what I suggested, although I was a little more forgiving with a minimum of +1 and strength mod times 3.

My concern is that you don't want to go too far and totally nerf the dex builds. They shouldn't be able to ignore strength completely.

Of course I'd also enforce it for ranged weapons as well. If all you can use is the equivalent of a kid's bow, you shouldn't be able to do that much damage.

Oofta said:

The phrase "once per round" tends to confuse people who argue that it's not clear whether you're talking combat round or a creature's round. So I'd stick to either reaction or even once per turn.

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I probably should have had it say reaction, I settled on that though just copy and pasted.

Oofta said:

Which is in line of what I suggested, although I was a little more forgiving with a minimum of +1 and strength mod times 3.

My concern is that you don't want to go too far and totally nerf the dex builds. They shouldn't be able to ignore strength completely.

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I don't want to nerf dex builds in terms of "you have 20 dex but you can't use any of that +5 bonus". I think maybe having a strength of 12 or 13 should be reasonable for a high dex combatant, but in terms of punishing those who go with having weapon-using classes that have a strength of 8, actually being stricter on encumbrance might be one. Or maybe not even allowing dex on any attack or damage roll unless strength is at least 10 (and making light armour require at least a strength of 10, or the use of Stunning Fist to require a strength of 10). Possibly penalizing ability increases (and point buy at character creation) to dex might be another until they're forced to increase str. Though keep in mind pure spellcasters would probably ignore str, but they rarely get into combat with weapons.

Oofta said:

Of course I'd also enforce it for ranged weapons as well. If all you can use is the equivalent of a kid's bow, you shouldn't be able to do that much damage.

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A lot of places in the thread suggest adding str to ranged attacks, but I wasn't much of fan of those. I don't think anyone should be able to pick up any bow (or crossbow or firearm) and be able to add strength to the damage roll. But I wasn't a fan of the idea of "mighty" bows in 3e and that murky place they occupied in terms of masterwork items and the fiddly-ness of having a Mighty +3 Longbow +2. I think the masterwork rules could probably be expanded a bit more though, even if they start falling more into the magic item rules. I actually liked the modular nature of magic weapons in 3e, even though it became something like "we need to wait for the next loot drop for something with the right proc" or whatever you get with certain video games.

I worked to polish the concept originally posted by [MENTION=6871653]vincegetorix[/MENTION] into a formalized archetype.

Enforcer
Some rogues are good at stealing, others for infiltration or killing. But you are the guy a boss calls in to do the dirty work. Breaking knees, scaring marks into paying on their “protection” fees, and kidnapping folks are all in a day’s work. You don’t rely on finesse or subtlety. Your tools of the trade are blunt, obvious, and effective.

Thug
You have learned to use the tools of your trade with even greater effect. Starting at 3rd level, you can apply your sneak attack damage while using a melee weapon that deals bludgeoning damage, even if it isn’t a finesse weapon.

Brute
When you fight, you fight dirty. Beginning at 3rd level, you can make the Shove action as a bonus action.

Nasty Backswing
Although sometimes you may miss, you usually still graze your opponent to make sure they know how lucky they are to have avoided the blow. Whenever you miss with an attack, if a hit would have allowed you to add sneak attack damage, the target takes weapon damage equal to the number of sneak attack dice in your pool.

Mug
By 13th level, you have become an expert in putting the fear of god into your victims. As an action you can choose a target within 60 feet. That target must make a Wisdom Saving Throw (DC 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Your Strength Modifier). If the target fails they become frightened. A target frightened in this matter automatically fails any perception or investigation checks to remember your features or to notice you stealing from them. A target may repeat the saving throw once at the end of each turn, ending the effect on a success.

Any target that succeeds their saving throw against this effect is immune to any further attempts by you to use this ability for 24 hours.

Blackjack
When you reach 17th level, you have mastered the art of knocking someone out to steal from them or carry them away. Whenever you have the option to deal sneak attack damage, you can forgo the extra damage to force the target to make a Constitution Saving Throw (DC 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Your Strength Modifier) or be stunned until the end of its next turn.

Once you have used this ability, you must complete a short rest to use it again against the same target.

Wulffolk said:

Simple . . .

DEX gives modifiers to hit for all attacks.
STR gives modifiers to damage for all attacks.

These changes allow for characters to be strong and uncoordinated, or the character that kills with a thousand cuts. STR works for damage with ranged damage because the stronger the character is the heavier the draw of the bow or crossbow the he can use, and the harder he throws. DEX works to hit for everything because no matter how strong you are you still have to be coordinated to hit. This gives players a meaningful choice to make in developing their characters, and reduces the problem of every character having either a 20 STR or 20 DEX.

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I like playing characters that are both Strong and Dexterous. I play Barbarians and Strength Rangers with 14 Dex, but I wouldn't want to make this change in 5e without also making a change to Spellcasters so they also use one stat for Attack and another for Damage.

Or do you mean Spellcasters would also use Dex to Hit, and Strength for Damage?

I have been using a "simplified encumbrance" system for my new campaign and the players have actually quite liked it. It also makes Strength feel pretty important. It was hacked together by a user on these forums.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Tracking-Sheet-(with-Simplified-Encumbrance)

At lvl 2 the players got patches for their backpacks that increase their encumbrance by their Con modifier. The one or two extra slots have helped a lot. It doesn't bog us down too often.

The moment it starts to I'll just have them find a bag of holding.

BookBarbarian said:

I like playing characters that are both Strong and Dexterous. I play Barbarians and Strength Rangers with 14 Dex, but I wouldn't want to make this change in 5e without also making a change to Spellcasters so they also use one stat for Attack and another for Damage.

Or do you mean Spellcasters would also use Dex to Hit, and Strength for Damage?

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I see what you mean. It would only be fair and balanced for casters to have to rely on more than one stat if melee character's need to. I wouldn't have a problem with Charisma being used as the equivalent of magical strength, Intelligence as the Dexterity equivalent, and Wisdom being the equivalent of Constitution. I think that all classes would become more interesting if they were more MAD to give players a more meaningful choice than racing to 20 in one primary stat.

I would use str or dex to hit and damage on all melee weapons.

But I would add minimum str requirement for all weapons, more str=more base damage.