D&D 5E Sabrina Spellman

CapnZapp said:

Of course Satan is male. That's the fundamental underpinning of the entire show. Sabrina has already started talking about taking him down. That would be the ultimate patriarchy to fall.

I do agree that for a supposedly feminist show, a lot of the women act like catty bitches fighting among themselves... The episode about the Queen of Feast really blew my mind - all the witches (except Sabrina) are revealed as basically chaotic evil cannibals!


That's.... that's... one way of putting it.

I'd say it stands more to reason Sabrina and her two friends are supposed to be the modern women of the show. Feminism comes to them naturally.

Madam Satan is manipulating Sabrina, but there's no reason to assume she's just a mindless tool of Satan. I think it makes more sense to think of Satan as putting a number of (more or less clear) end goals in front of his servants, not caring how they achieve them. I certainly didn't get any vibe of him mandating feminism must somehow be involved.

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lowkey13 said:

So, a few things here.

First, the sadomasochism is hardly covert. They used Venus in Furs in the soundtrack, for crying out loud.

Second, demanding complete tonal and intellectual consistency for what is essentially a CW/Berlanti show that was brought over to Netflix might be a little much. ("Oh noes, Supergirl isn't always exactly perfectly on point in its feminism!").

With those caveats in place, I think you are missing the forest for the trees, and not a very subtle forest, either. Sabrina recognizes that the power she would gain AT THE EXPENSE OF HER FREEDOM is now tradeoff that she should make. In essence, the limited gifts of the patriarchy, however enchanting, are still another form of prison.

I mean, c'mon, it's Satan. I don't think this is being hidden; calling it subtext is a disservice to the prefix "sub," and this is more boat than submarine, my friend.

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CapnZapp said:

Of course - yes, the whole concept of witchcraft is in a way much more related to authority than magic. Dismissing the show as just for intersectional feminists ignores this fact. I get why some people might just want to bring out the popcorn and see hot chicks cast spells, but to me the added layers make the show better, more smart and mature.

That said, one inescapable reflection is: "why do these women subordinate themselves if they're so powerful?"

Obviously real women don't have fantasy powers, and so it would be incredibly ignorant to ask this of them. Luckily for me the Spellmans aren't ordinary women. My point is, isn't there a whiff of have-and-eat-cakism here? Logically they need to show how High Priest Blackwood (or Satan) puts the boot down to enforce the patriarchy, except "strong active males" is the opposite of what the show wants to be about.

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mrpopstar said:

I foresee Sabrina battling Satan and thus all of patriarchy.

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gyor said:

I never said the sadomasochism was covert, I just found it funny that it's directed at symbol they intended to stand for the Patriarchy instead of the male feminist types on the show.

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CapnZapp said:

I am confused.

What's funny about that. I certainly hope you don't think you can't be a feminist and enjoy straight sex (kinky or not) at the same time? Nothing about Aunt Zelda's "session" with Father Blackwood indicated submission from her part, and even if she was, that's still not incompatible with being a feminist. (Actually, that scene was so chaste you could be forgiven for not being clear on what exactly happened).

In short: Why do you think feminists would want to restrict themselves from either fighting and ing the patriarchy when they can do both? Sex and power are different things.

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