"How do I beat the Matt Mercer effect?"

VengerSatanis · Dec 30, 2018

vincegetorix said:
I had to deal with this situation from 2 players who would argue the rules because ''that's not how they do on CR!''. I had to make them see that those comments were hurtful and impolite, like being invited to supper at a friend's home and constantly whining that their grand-ma's spaghetti sauce is soooooo much better than the host's one and how it's sad that it doesnt taste like hers.

I also had to remind them that even though I did not watch the show, I know enough about it from Reddit to know that their character is a straight rip-off from the show and that will likely create dissonant expectations when they'll realize that I wont threat their character the same way Mercer did.

Hurtful and impolite? Maybe grow thicker skin, and be open to improving. No GM is perfect, even Mercer.

Comparisons have been around since... forever. They're inevitable.

VS

DQDesign · Dec 30, 2018

I would be interested in knowing if wotc is worried about this kind of effect and in such case which are the countermeasures they would put in action or if they are just satisfied with the luring power of those shows and don't care about the 'what?!? sex is not exactly like porn?!?' effect the shows create.

WhosDaDungeonMaster · Dec 30, 2018

You know, I've never even heard of this guy or Critical Role (?)... and I don't think any of my players have, either, but I'll have to ask.

Jester David · Dec 30, 2018

I commented on this discussion on Twitter a few days back, arguing the "Matt Mercer/ Critical Role" effect is just a modern (and more widespread) take on an existing phenomena.
How many people got into D&D from the video games or the novels and expected a very similar experience? Specifically, how many Dragonlance fans moved onto D&D and expected their campaign to be very similar to the War of the Lance or rather than making a copy of a Vox Machina character they ended up making a Drizzt clone?

Matt Mercer has become the gold standard of DMing. He's knowledgeable of *most* of the rules, and is quick to keep things moving if he doesn't know and only stops to check if he's really uncertain. His descriptions are solid and he's good at managing the table, doing his best to keep the players from becoming bored.
But, as he says, he's been DMing for twenty years and has experience in acting and a vocal field. Plus, he has spent the last three-and-a-half years DMing live in a weekly show that has very limited above the table chatter, so he's "on" for long stretches of time. He's been through a crucible. He'd better be good.

Tales and Chronicles · Dec 30, 2018

VengerSatanis said:
Hurtful and impolite? Maybe grow thicker skin, and be open to improving. No GM is perfect, even Mercer.

Comparisons have been around since... forever. They're inevitable.

VS

Or I could just tell my player that their constant comparison is unwelcome and induce an unwanted pressure on my game. You know, just discussing the things that might create conflict, like normal adults. I dont think having one side ''endure'' is the way to go and, seeing from the number of time those threads pop-up online, I dont think I'm the only one in this situation.

EDIT: Where did I say that I wasnt open to improvement? The fact that I use RAW ressurection and potion use and not Mercer's doest mean that I dont want to improve myself, I just dont like his rules for my campaigns. After each game my player do a short evaluation survey, and we have reserved time at the start of ech session to discuss the changes players want to make because I see DMing as a shared task.

Immortal Sun · Dec 30, 2018

I think there's a difference between saying "That's the way my gramma/my fav DM/Matt does things!" as a statement of badwrongfun, and "Oh, I thought that's how things were done." as a statement of ignorance that things could be different. I haven't personally encountered any players who assume that Critical Role is the way to play D&D. That could be just because I'm fairly picky with my players and don't really "teach" people the game very often.

As far as "this dwarf sounds like CR's dwarf" I mean...come on, is that reallly a complaint? I've had players sounding like bad Irish/Scottish parodies for 20+ years, I mean heck, my first DM liked to play dwarves and thought he was hot stuff because he could do a parody dwarf pretty well. Players can play their character however they want, inspired by whatever source they want. If they express surprise at a dwarf that doesn't sound like that, again that's where you need to watch for the difference between "If you're not doing it the way CR does you're wrong!" and "I had no idea that was an option!"

So, again, really I think what this comes down to is player attitude. Are they ignorant? Or are they arrogant?

DEFCON 1 · Dec 30, 2018

DQDesign said:
I would be interested in knowing if wotc is worried about this kind of effect and in such case which are the countermeasures they would put in action or if they are just satisfied with the luring power of those shows and don't care about the 'what?!? sex is not exactly like porn?!?' effect the shows create.

I think they've already put their countermeasures into effect, which is streaming a crapton of their own D&D games on their Twitch channel. And anyone who watches any of those can know for certain there are wide disparities between them and Critical Role. CR is one style of game... and Dice, Camera, Action, and Sirens of the Realm, and Heroes of the Vale, and Inkwell Society, and Girls, Guts, Glory are all other styles of game.

Now whether any new players watch any of those games is another question... but really what else can WotC do? They make options and styles of D&D available to watch, and the people then decide if any of them float their boat enough to bother.

Vael · Dec 30, 2018

Elfcrusher said:
Everybody knows that Dwarves have Russian accents. Celtic accents are just wrong.

Geez, I just wish I could maintain a consistent accent. It's a common joke at my table that every character of mine has an international accent ... that it travels the world, often in a single sentence.

iserith · Dec 30, 2018

I just run the game better than he does and it seems to work.

Charlaquin · Dec 30, 2018

The Fighter-Cricket said:
But I can imagine a lot of (young?) folks who get into the hobby via RPG shows

I know plenty of grown-ass adults who got into the hobby through Critical Role, The Adventure Zone, Dice Camera Action, and similar shows.

The Fighter-Cricket said:
could be more susceptible to believe every round of D&D should be like this. Mercer should put this message as a disclaimer before every video.

Now that, I strongly agree with. I’ve seen a lot of choices that the Critical Role folks make, that work fine for them, but that I really wish Matt would just take a moment to look at the camera and say, “for folks watching, this is how we handle situations like this, but we’ve been gaming together for a long time, and had plenty of opportunity to find what works for us as a group. In your own games, it’s important to talk about these things with your DM and fellow players so you can find what works for your own group.”

im thinking, for example, about the way they describe their use of material and somatic components when casting spells. An awesome choice for a streamed performance, but might not be reasonable to expect at every table.