D&D 5E This is the end, my beautiful friend (?) - or endgame in 5e

S'mon · Jul 19, 2017

Sithikurro said:
Question 1: Have you ever actually started a level 1 PC and got, through gaming (no-level skipping) to level 20?

A friend & player in my 4e Loudwater game played Lirael the Ranger from level 1 to level 29, while also writing a bunch of good-selling teen fantasy books, creating fantastic hand-crafted magic wands, doing a professional paint job on several of my minis, and raising a son &
husband

- not everyone has the dedication to put 5.5 years into the same PC though, or
the skill to keep them alive through 5 and a half years of my GMing.

I have another friend & player has played Hakeem the 5e Barbarian from 1 to 19 over the past 2.5 years, but he's planning to retire and become a house husband just as soon as he faces & survives his final battle with Kainos the Warbringer, demigod son of Ares (any day now). We'll see how that goes...

My son played William the Wizard MU 4 to 17 in Classic before he died, and has played William's son Bravery from Fighter 1 to 19 now. And BiTD I had players with god-level 1e AD&D PCs.

S'mon · Jul 19, 2017

My tabletop 5e Varisia game, the highest PC Quillax the Druid has been played up from 1st to 15th and we're just halfway through the campaign after 54 sessions, so I expect a lot of play at 20th.

Oofta · Jul 19, 2017

Sithikurro said:
Question 1: Have you ever actually started a level 1 PC and got, through gaming (no-level skipping) to level 20?

Yes. The (soon to end) campaign I'm currently playing in we're 20th level now. I made it to 30th level (DMing and playing) in 5E.

Sithikurro said:
Question 2: Have played more than one or two adventures as level 20th PC?

For 5E - not yet. Not sure I will ... but I have plans to have a cross-over event from my wife's campaign to mine which will combine a couple of groups for 20th level shenanigans.

Sithikurro said:
Question 3: I don't like playing high-level PCs because...

The biggest issue I see is analysis paralysis on the side of players. They have too many options and don't want to "waste" high level spells and powers when it's not necessary.

A fair number of players hold back for that "big fight" that never seems to happen.

The other problem is simply one of speed. Players who role. One. Die. At. A. Time. I get it. Your fighter has 10 attacks and you don't have that many dice. Roll ahead, use average damage, do something so the rest of the group isn't sitting around waiting for you.

Some people just aren't organized enough to do it though. When I play my turn (the attack part) is over in less than a minute - what AC? OK, they take ___ damage. Because I've rolled ahead and wrote down all my numbers and I just have to verify I hit. Since I always roll in sequence, and my DM trusts me, it's all good.

hastur_nz · Jul 19, 2017

I've been DM for numerous campaigns that went from level 1 to the "top end" and beyond - 3.5 was 1-23; 4e was 1-30+epic; 5e was 1-20+epic.

My players all enjoyed it, and would do it again. Personally I've only played to somewhere near 20th once, in 3.5, and I didn't start at 1st level, it was fun but personally I don't think 20th level is any kind of 'mega fun end game', it's just the top-end of the game design (and a pretty flaky one, tbh - it is what the DM makes of it).

Starting characters at such a high level isn't that easy, new comers definitely feel 'bolted on' not just from a story point of view but also just from lack of breadth that you get from slowly but surely actually playing them and developing them in real play vs the theory of character building.

In every edition, the DM's job gets harder as you get higher level PC's, and overall you have to work hard to make sure it doesn't grind to a halt in combats, so again slowly working your way there is easier than if you just jumped right in the deep end with no experience.

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 20, 2017

Sithikurro said:
I'm curious about your opinion and experience, so share your thoughts!

I've been thinking lately that I would like to run a 20th-level-oriented campaign but make the PCs start from level 1, although perhaps with a handful of magic items like a Horn of Valhalla and a Staff the Magi. From my past experience I'm confident that this sort of sink-or-swim approach levels the PCs up very quickly so I'm not particularly worried about PCs never reaching level 20; what would be unusual about this campaign would be that it is oriented from the beginning toward 20th-level play and includes plenty of interesting challenges (physical, magical, economic, or political) that are nontrivial for 20th level players. I'm still thinking about how to do this but so far I'm sure that I want a cosmopolitan atmosphere, a rotating cast of mutually-antagonistic epic-level NPCs (if PCs can quickly go from 1st to 20th level, NPCs can too), probably a mythic underworld, and time travel. Minimal emphasis on XP gain or traditional adventuring day constraints like XP budgets or "level appropriate encounters", but a lot of emphasis on non-hostile social interactions, treasure and artifact-hunting, heists, cunning, and Combat As War.

Argyle King · Jul 20, 2017

Question 1: Have you ever actually started a level 1 PC and got, through gaming (no-level skipping) to level 20?

Yes, several times in 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

Question 2: Have played more than one or two adventures as level 20th PC?

Yes

I've also gone beyond 20th level in previous editions.

Question 3: I don't like playing high-level PCs because...

This depends upon which edition you're playing. In general, I enjoy it, but I also feel as though high level D&D typically assumes a style of play which I enjoy, but one which isn't my preference. I get more enjoyment out of "high level" heroes leading armies rather than fighting them. Also, having every campaign be a race to save the world from a

evil god/demon/maniacal BBEG becomes a little bit repetitive.

Raith5 · Jul 20, 2017

I like very high level play a lot - it a a real change of pace and mindset from lower level D&D. Like others in this thread I got to level 20 in 4e - actually we are 30th level and the campaign is not finished. 4e is the only edition where I have done so legitimately. The system just works well at high level - even though the fights are very slow in real time.

Other editions haven't worked as well at high level. I had 2e and 3e campaigns just stop being fun around 13th level. I played a very high level 1e campaign where we had our 20th level pcs attack a randomly selected demon or devil lord, but it was a monty haul game and we started at 10th level.

Azzy · Jul 20, 2017

Sithikurro said:
Question 1: Have you ever actually started a level 1 PC and got, through gaming (no-level skipping) to level 20?

Not yet.

Question 2: Have played more than one or two adventures as level 20th PC?

Nope.

Question 3: I don't like playing high-level PCs because...

The only time I've played at 20+ level was in 3.5e. It was a lot of work. I doubt that'll be the case in 5e, though.

Li Shenron · Jul 24, 2017

Sithikurro said:
Question 1: Have you ever actually started a level 1 PC and got, through gaming (no-level skipping) to level 20?

No. Biggest runs have been probably 14-15 levels in 3e, so almost but not quite there. Especially since after a while we always started games at 3rd level typically.

Sithikurro said:
Question 2: Have played more than one or two adventures as level 20th PC?

Neither.

Sithikurro said:
Question 3: I don't like playing high-level PCs because...

I haven't got there yet in 5e... but I can say that in 3e I didn't like having so many options to keep in mind (especially as a spellcaster) that I usually ended up ignoring the low-level stuff to just focus on the highest, and that doesn't feel good.

D&D 5E This is the end, my beautiful friend (?) - or endgame in 5e

S'mon

Legend

S'mon

Legend

Oofta

Legend

hastur_nz

First Post

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

Argyle King

Legend

Raith5

Adventurer

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ

Li Shenron

Legend

Similar Threads