D&D 5E Defiler/Preserver Basic Idea (Darksun)

Back in the day defliers got to level up faster, but in one of the splats IIRC they got a penalty on charisma checks.


In 5E I suppose if you defiles or got defiler points you could use them to enhance your spells via caster levels and every time you cast you defile- its not optional. Defilers would have disadvantage on charisma ability checks. Defile hard enough and a spell gains +1 spell slot.

Preservers are doing it harder, ergo they are kind of roleplaying so they get inspiration and it refreshes on a short rest. Defilers can enhance their spells but their mechanic is tied to long rest.

That is the guts of the idea anyway. Presevers do something with inspiration, defilers spells are a bit more powerful and people hate them and its harder to hide their magic.

Defiling should be the lure of easy and free power.

So you can upscale spells for free, if you defile to a certain range.

Maybe after getting used to defiling, there's a chance you are dependent on it, and then all your spells must defile.

Muhahaha....

SkidAce said:

Defiling should be the lure of easy and free power.

So you can upscale spells for free, if you defile to a certain range.

Maybe after getting used to defiling, there's a chance you are dependent on it, and then all your spells must defile.

Muhahaha....

Click to expand...

Yes. That would be my idea. In 5e the multiclass rules allow to have slots for levels you have no spells known of.

I would handle it like sorcerer points. A free reserve of spell slots. You may create slots of 1 level higher than you can cast. To take Zardnaars Idea I would replace arcane recovery with it.

Defiling should be really tempting - both over the long term and in the moment. It should be tempting to start, and harder and harder to stop.

My version of defiling has a table of "bad things" that happen when you defile. The bigger the spell, the more potent the effect - but I felt it important for the effect to manifest randomly so that PCs can't turn the "negative" into a positive through strategic use. These range from destroying nearby vegetation, destroying water, damaging random creatures, damaging al creatures, cursing creatures, etc...

On the positive side, when you defile, you either get to apply one of several metamagic feats to the spell, or you get to treat it as if cast with a spell slot two levels higher, or you get a spell slot of at least two levels lower back.

When you defile, you add a point to your defiler score. If you have more than 20 defiler points, you only add half a defiler point when you cast a defiling spell. When you take a long rest, you may make a wisdom saving throw to reduce your defiler score by one. The DC depends upon your defiler score, but starts at 10 and caps out at 20.

While you have a defiler score and cast a spell without defiling, you must make a concentration check. The DC depends upon your defiling score and the level of the spell, but ranges from 10 to 30. If you fail, the spell fails (as if countered).

This system makes it tempting to defile a little, but you can easily find yourself getting caught up in a big battle and realizing you're in the thick of it.

[DND][/DND]If you used this for a warlock, you could do something like you can recharge a spell slot if you use your bonus action to inflict X amount of necrotic damage on one being within 5 feet of you that has an indifferent or friendly attitude toward you, where X=1d4 for a 1st level spell, 2d6 for a 2nd level spell, 3d8 for a third level spell, 4d10 for a forth level spell, 5d12 for a fifth level spell, and 6d20 for a second casting of a 6th level mystic Arcanum spell. It is a good excuse to keep flunkies, zombies, your chainlock familiar, or the party's barbarian near you. If the target has insufficient hitpoints, the recharges fails.

Edit: I suppose your PC could be considered to have a friendly or indifferent attitude to him/herself as well, so they could self-damage. Don't expect evil NPC defilers to do anything of the sort, though

As originally conceived, the preserver/defiler divide is super dependent on roleplaying as a balance tool. I like the idea of looking for a way to translate that roleplaying element into concrete mechanical benefits; but I'm not a big fan of "free inspiration" as a solution. For one thing, inspiration has limited value to a wizard. Wizards don't roll d20s all that often; they make other people roll d20s. For another, inspiration is supposed to be an incentive to think about your character traits; making it automatic for preservers means they lose that incentive.

What about using the Veiled Alliance instead? The Preserver tradition grants access to various resources that the defiler does not get, the sort of resources that come with being part of a "mage guild." This could include:

• An extra spell for your spellbook on level up.
• Able to buy consumable magic items up to a certain rarity.
• Discounts on common magic items (e.g., healing potions) and spell components.
• Certain spells that can only be cast by preservers.

Note that I am focusing here on benefits that are fairly universal; you would want them even in a beer-and-pretzels monster-bashing game. Stuff like "they will hide you from the sorcerer-kings" is valuable in many games, but worthless in others, so I don't want to lean on it exclusively.

Meanwhile, the defiler tradition would grant straight-up power boosts, and maybe an AoE debuff whenever they cast a spell, since defiling magic causes pain to living creatures.

The Preserver tradition would allow you to use certain features of the Defiler tradition, but each use has a cumulative chance to make you go dark side and switch you to Defiler permanently. (At this point, the Veiled Alliance can sense the taint of defiling on you, and they kick you out.) Going from Defiler to Preserver would be much harder; mechanically, you'd have to forego using your Defiler tradition features for some period of time. You might also need a sponsor from the Veiled Alliance, both to help you learn preserving magic and to vouch for your reformation.

Why would they be separate traditions?

Defiling is simply a choice made at the point of casting the spell. Any Wizard (and maybe sorceror and/or Warlock) can choose to take the easy way, or resist temptation. You don't need to have a specific tradition/prestige class to defile or not defile.

i was thinking Preserver is a specialty that an arcane caster can take at 3rd or higher and replace his existing benefits from his prior specialty (Oathbreaker style). The preserver uses a bonus action and heals a small amount to allies around him when he casts a damaging spell. He also gains the ability to defile. If he does defile, he instead gains a bonus to damage against the target, but all creatures nearby are defiled and take this damage as well. If you defile though, you run the risk of becoming a defiler. A defiler's benefits replace the Preserver benefits but, if the defiler doesn't use the bonus action to defile when he casts, he takes the damage himself. Just off the top of my DM head.

In the lore once a Wizard defiled they would struggle to go back to harmony with the land. In the same way that an alcoholic can’t have just one drink’. Preserved and Defiler was a subtype, kit or character option. It’s a bit like Fallen Palladin. Redemption should be possible but would require effort.

I think the bigger issue with defilers and preservers is the question of cantrips. Darksun is not a setting for spamming spells.

What about Defiling not consuming a spell slot. Defiling a radius dependent on the spell level. Preservers are more likely to husband higher level spells and use ‘weaker’ cantrips. While defilers can spam more powerful spell slots defiling the land as they do.

If you want to do Dark Sun, I would suggest defiling do something like the following.
You then either make it mandatory or grant a benefit. You probably don't want to do both, but all casters should have the choice each time they cast.

Defiling
Whenever a Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard casts a spell, vegetation in a 10 ft radius per spell level (minimum 5 ft) begins to rot away. Plant creatures in the area take 2d6+spell level damage, and 1 lb of food (1 days ration) per spell level in the area is also destroyed.


If mandatory, the caster may spend a Bonus Action to prevent the effect. If the spell requires more than 1 action to cast, they must double the casting time instead. Reactions are unaffected. This represents the caster taking extra time and effort to prevent the defiling.

If optional, the caster may: cause 1 target to have disadvantage on the save, gain advantage on the spell's attack, or cast it as if 1 level higher than the slot used. This would represent the benefit those who choose to defile gain over those who don't.