How to spice up this chimera/trap encounter?

Quickleaf said:

I like the ideas of making the encoutner not just a fight, but a lateral thinking challenge. That really suits the rest of the dungeon which is a bit more "fairy tale" in feel, and involves several traps/illusions and fights that involve tricks to make them go smoother / be resolved easily.

[MENTION=80982]pdzoch[/MENTION] The idea of a new or rejuvenated chimera being (re)summoned with each misstep is apropos to the dungeon/adventure. And the idea of the heads morphing with each summoning is also apropros to the nature of a chimera. Sort of the same as what [MENTION=29387]Askaval30[/MENTION] was recommending; a recurring monster who keeps coming back with a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor/interaction with the PCs. I think that's smart because it elevates the chimera from being a boring under-level monster ill-suited to an enclosed space.

The idea of the trap polymorphing a PC into the chimera fits with the dungeon/adventure [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION], though in terms of challenge four 11th level PCs vs. one chimera...the PCs are still going to stomp the polymorphed chimera... It's interesting though... Might have to experiment with that!

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What would be REALLY sick is to combined all the ideas together: One of the PCs is randomly selected to the be third head of the Chimera! (replace the goat head). Now the party will really be conflicted about attacking the beast!

Celebrim said:

UPDATE 2: Thinking about this further, I now get what was going on in the head of the original designer when he designed this. I think that in its original form this was meant to be a somewhat simple skill test, wherein the players where supposed to recognize that they could just step back through the door and close it. I originally thought this disarmed the trap, but it doesn't do that. It just tells the party where to expect the trap. At that point, it becomes a puzzle in getting the party across the room without touching the floor or otherwise obliquely disarming the trap, which might be an interesting puzzle for a party of 5th level in its era.

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Exactly. Except the adventure doesn't really present opportunities to acquire a ring of returning before entering the chamber, so it doesn't quite work as intended.

EDIT: Ahhh, the original draft of the adventure was the European Open Competition at Euro GEN CON game fair in 1992. So that makes a little more sense at the oddity of this room, it was originally a convention game!

[SBLOCK]Another point that I should mention is the PCs may be accompanied by a prince NPC polymorphed into a beholder. Part of the original adventure. The thing is the "beholder" doesn't have control over its eyestalks yet. So hypothetically, and I think this is called out in the original, the "beholder's" anti-magic eye could un-summon the summoned chimera. For those 2 reasons, it doesn't quite work even in the original.[/SBLOCK]

Quickleaf said:

Exactly. Except the adventure doesn't really present opportunities to acquire a ring of returning before entering the chamber, so it doesn't quite work as intended.

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Yeah. I was trying hard to give it credit for being clever, then I noticed that the wording on the room isn't "if they step on to the floor" but "if they step into the room". So it doesn't even matter if they fly, trap is still triggered. So, for all practical purposes, this is just a straight forward encounter with a Chimera. I'm not now sure why you'd bother with all the added complexity of this encounter, as it's either going to be highly random, just tedious, or just an encounter with a Chimera.

Celebrim said:

Yeah. I was trying hard to give it credit for being clever, then I noticed that the wording on the room isn't "if they step on to the floor" but "if they step into the room". So it doesn't even matter if they fly, trap is still triggered. So, for all practical purposes, this is just a straight forward encounter with a Chimera. I'm not now sure why you'd bother with all the added complexity of this encounter, as it's either going to be highly random, just tedious, or just an encounter with a Chimera.

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You're saying build my own guardian room encounter from the ground up?

I'm thinking the "point" of it might be two-fold or even three-fold (besides the simple idea of a guardian signaling to players they're entering a dungeon)...

(1) It can provide clues about the mage's power. Like the idea of polymorphing/magic jarring a PC's consciousness into a chimera head? That totally foreshadows other powers/spells of Nazir they'll encounter later on. Same with the White Flame properties.

(2) It can present a lateral thinking challenge to be overcome, signaling that the tone of the rest of the dungeon. And cause, well, D&D is on some level about overcoming challenges.

(3) It can provide some roleplaying opportunities with the guardian, possibly light-hearted humor especially if the guardian returns. Maybe the goat, dragon, and lion all want to be free of one another? And I could hook that into a future adventure down the road where another "guardian room" type challenge could appear?

Quickleaf said:

You're saying build my own guardian room encounter from the ground up?

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Without being familiar with the text of the rest of the module, it's impossible for me to give you advice on building an overall theme or connecting the encounter to later ones as some sort of logical progression.

As presented though, the 'trap' doesn't present an interesting challenge. It's a 'brute' monster that needs to mix it up with a party of equivalent level, yet the encounter design means that a party can freely trap the monster in it's lair - at which point it can only respond with an occasional breath weapon versus the entire missile capability of the party (and there seems to be a theory that 5e is particularly bad at that). The trap seems to be designed so that there isn't many creative ways to bypass the trap, and the terrain means that if you set off the trap either its just a straight up fight with a brute that lacks battlefield control or a tedious take down against something that struggles to fight back. I feel that's too swingy and involves too few approaches to the encounter. I'm guilty of putting monsters in a dungeon just to abrade resources and dispense XP just as much as the next guy, but I can't endorse that as good design.

What do you want to get out of this encounter? A complex tactical challenge? A puzzle? A resources sink? A cakewalk to put the characters on their toes?

I'm curious though, is the 'solution' to this whole dungeon just having the NPC that might be accompanying the party keep his eye open the whole time? Because that sounds like it would make this dungeon a nightmare to run, and even more so if he has a lazy eye problem.

Celebrim said:

Without being familiar with the text of the rest of the module, it's impossible for me to give you advice on building an overall theme or connecting the encounter to later ones as some sort of logical progression.

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I'm working on that - that's my job as DM.

As presented though, the 'trap' doesn't present an interesting challenge. It's a 'brute' monster that needs to mix it up with a party of equivalent level, yet the encounter design means that a party can freely trap the monster in it's lair - at which point it can only respond with an occasional breath weapon versus the entire missile capability of the party (and there seems to be a theory that 5e is particularly bad at that). The trap seems to be designed so that there isn't many creative ways to bypass the trap, and the terrain means that if you set off the trap either its just a straight up fight with a brute that lacks battlefield control or a tedious take down against something that struggles to fight back. I feel that's too swingy and involves too few approaches to the encounter. I'm guilty of putting monsters in a dungeon just to abrade resources and dispense XP just as much as the next guy, but I can't endorse that as good design.

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Totally. Totally agree. That was my read of the encounter as well. Nothing was springing to mind immediately about improving it, so that's why I posted! I'm looking to do something "inspired by" this room, but drastically enhancing it.

What do you want to get out of this encounter? A complex tactical challenge? A puzzle? A resources sink? A cakewalk to put the characters on their toes?

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I just outlined those 3 things in the post above. Definitely #1, setting the scene/tone of the dungeon. And definitely #2, a lateral thinking challenge / puzzle (that doesn't just have the PCs stomp the chimera to the curb, i.e. gives them a motive to want to avoid tangling with the monster). Possibly also adding #3, a role-playing opportunity & potential side quest of "Separate the Three Animals."

I'm curious though, is the 'solution' to this whole dungeon just having the NPC that might be accompanying the party keep his eye open the whole time? Because that sounds like it would make this dungeon a nightmare to run, and even more so if he has a lazy eye problem.

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It's really ambiguous, and that is something I'm thinking of. Basically... the approach to the dungeon is by way of a narrow fissure that their large-eyed friend can't fit through, so he goes to fly around to find another means of entry... a contrivance that allows him to show up in the closing act.

[SBLOCK]The "beholder" prince has a Mirror of Desire (15' tall x 10' wide) that 1/day allows its owner to view their heart's desire in the mirror, and then step through the mirror like a portal to that location with up to 10 other creatures. Technically, they're transported as a ball (balls?) of light at very high speeds (MV 540') to the location. The mirror also transports them back, but only if the owner attains their heart's desire.[/SBLOCK]

[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION] [MENTION=80982]pdzoch[/MENTION] [MENTION=29387]Askaval30[/MENTION] [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION] [MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION]

Thank you guys very much for your feedback I've adapted a lot from your ideas and re-written the room. Would love to hear your critique and feedback.

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#2. Guardian Room (revised)
[SECTION]Beyond the door is a room lined with mosaics running the floor and walls, only occasionally interrupted by marble beneath. The geometric patterns in hues of yellow, orange, and red resemble flames spiraling toward the center of the floor. Designs of serpents, lions, and rams emerge from the flames, even as geometric man-like figures fall into the spiral of flames. Perhaps the room measures 40’ x 30’ but it’s hard to be certain because of the disorienting design of the mosaics. At the far side is a hammered copper door.[/SECTION]

Visual reference for mosaic: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ec/c5/3c/ecc53c462b5ceaac3eb5bb074245563f.jpg

A 20’ wide strip of mosaic running through the center of the room perpendicular to the PCs’ entrance is a trigger for a summoning trap should anyone not wearing a ring of returning* step on that section of the mosaic. When triggered, the trap does three things:

• It seals the door the PCs entered from while casting arcane lock on it.
• It begins summoning Khaahaje, a chimera (see below), which takes 1 full round to complete as it emerges from the mosaic.
• It creates a magnetic pull drawing PCs toward the center of the room during the round the summoning occurs. Each PC in the room must make a DC 17 Strength saving throw (auto-succeed if anchored with rope, disadvantage if wearing metal armor) or be pulled 30 feet towards the center of the room. A PC starting its turn in the center of the room when the chimera summoning finishes must make a DC 17 Charisma saving throw or vanish and find its consciousness trapped inside the chimera. No more than 3 PCs can be absorbed into the chimera this way (each gaining a CE persona while absorbed and controlling/speaking for a different head). Reducing the chimera to 0 hit points frees any “trapped” PCs, as does immersing the chimera in the White Flame, or casting dispel evil and good on the chimera.

Khaahaje is a conversationally intelligent chimera with an elemental nature (e.g. for the purposes of protection from evil and good), and the heads of a hooded cobra, ram, and giant caracal. Fused from three creatures by Anzar in the White Flame, Khaahaje was forced into servitude which it resents, but at least it gets to slake its bloodlust. Khaahaje fears Anzar too much to act against him directly.

Khaahaje: {5e specific monster boosts, mostly defensive in nature relating to the White Flame} Maximum HP (168). Damage resistance to fire, radiant; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. CR 9 (5,000 XP).

If reduced to 0 hit points, Khaahaje is merely un-summoned, not killed. Each time Khaahaje is summoned it has full hit points, and randomly determines the damage its breath weapon deals (1d4: 1-acid, 2-fire, 3-poison, 4-radiant).

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Hehe, that sounds pretty cool.

I have some questions. I am sure you have thought of it but it does not appear presented in the text.

What happens to the bodies of the PC whose conscious is absorbed into the Chimera? Is there a swap? As the Chimera does not speak, how does the party learn that the consciousness of one of their members is missing from their party member's body and how do they learn it is contained in the Chimera?

What happens to Khaahaje's consciousness once it has absorbed three PC? Is it still in control?

How does Khaahaje get re-summoned once it is killed? What situation would occur in this room that the party would re-summon Khaahaje? It appears that it would not be re-summoned during the completion of this encounter, so it would be unfortunate that this particular aspect might not come into the game.

pdzoch said:

I have some questions. I am sure you have thought of it but it does not appear presented in the text.

What happens to the bodies of the PC whose conscious is absorbed into the Chimera? Is there a swap?

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Good question! Right now, I have it that the PC's body vanishes into the chimera. So there is no swap. I used the term "magnetic pull" but it might better be described as mystical transmogrifying pull.

As the Chimera does not speak, how does the party learn that the consciousness of one of their members is missing from their party member's body and how do they learn it is contained in the Chimera?

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I clarified that Khaahaje is a "conversationally intelligent chimera" for just that reason (plus, there's some interaction elements to the scene that require it to be speaking). It also makes sense since elsewhere in the adventure there's an apprentice mage polymorphed into a monkey who speaks.

What happens to Khaahaje's consciousness once it has absorbed three PC? Is it still in control?

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Another good question! In this context, I'm interpreting Khaahaje as a "collection of multiple animal intelligences, fused together by an evil corrupting will." So in that sense, it already has a conflicting nature. PCs getting absorbed are just more chefs in the kitchen, but still "fused together by an evil corrupting will." (i.e. still Chaotic Evil).

The way I'd play it at the table (er, online) is to tell all absorbed PCs what's happened to them, but that they are filled with malign evil predatory will (i.e. they are acting Chaotic Evil now), and they have control over one of the chimera's heads.

How does Khaahaje get re-summoned once it is killed? What situation would occur in this room that the party would re-summon Khaahaje? It appears that it would not be re-summoned during the completion of this encounter, so it would be unfortunate that this particular aspect might not come into the game.

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If Khaahaje is killed, it is re-summoned by a creature contacting that 20' wide strip across the center of the mosaic. If the PCs used detect magic or have otherwise determined that the trapped area is that 20' wide strip (not automatic when the trap is triggered), then they probably can circumvent the trap.

It's more a hazard if the PCs have to withdraw from the fortress to recoup. Then they have to keep it in mind and devise a workaround (or possibly be unaware of what the trigger was and risk triggering it again). Also, the enemy forces can respond now that the PCs have withdrawn and possibly set up an ambush with polearms to shove PCs trying to reach the copper door back into the mosaic trap.

That's all I can think of right now.