"I Quit" Public Play - Am I just an impatient jerk? (LONG)

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Over the past five years, I've had the opportunity to play in Adventurer's League games at two FLGS and twice at a local convention. I've also played Pathfinder and Starfinder Society games at the local convention.

Overall, I've been very lucky with the DMs and the players. My issues are more with how organized play is organized.

With AL, I don't play enough to get to high-tier play. I'll never be able to play at high tier because there are no high-tier games that allow pregens. I know some people just cheat on their tracking sheets, but I have no interest in doing all that work to fake a character's experience. I really miss the old days of RPGA one-shots with pregens that could be set for any level.

I've heard that with PFS/SFS you can play with pregens at higher tiers, but I don't have enough experience with the society's rules to know exactly how that works. But I'm going to look into it more. Maybe for SFS. I'm not really in investing into another generic medieval fantasy rule set.

I find that Organized Play just doesn't mesh well with Conventions. The organized-play groups tend to take over a large room and just run things according to their own organization and table numbers and even times get moved around. I no longer play AL at conventions. I did try PFS and SFS this year and found that they were better organized, but I was still confused about the need to check in with the host at one of the doors to the big room and ended up at the wrong table because the table number on the ticket doesn't match how they actually organized the tables. Better signage would be a simply way to make the experience more welcoming to players who are new to the organization. But this is a small complaint. I enjoyed the DM and fellow players of both my Pathfinder 2.0 playtest and my Starfinder game and they started and ended on time. Which was a revelation given my AL experiences at the same Convention.

It seems the most AL play is for long-term campaigns. It is not always possible to find one shots being run.

My best experiences with AL are their EPICS. Especially when they are organized independently at a FLGS rather than a Convention. The most recent EPIC I played was a fund raiser at local gaming store and it was some of the most fun I've had playing D&D ever. It was also well organized with their own online signup system and well marked tables. The DMs and organizers did an amazing job and I enjoyed all my fellow players. I will go to every future event like this that they organize (as long as its independent and not at a Convention). My ONLY complaint is that I will only ever be able to play in the first tier.

Because I see a need, I'm thinking of running my own one shots. I would organize via meet up and have some geared for new players and some for only experienced players. Basically, I'm thinking 6-hour adventures for four players. It would be RAW PHB and DMG and would NOT use organized play rules. Players would have to select from a pregen.

I played a Dungeon Crawl Classics game at a recent convention that was run like this and it was such a breath of fresh air. It was so fun. I really wish there were more opportunities like this for 5e. I have enjoyed some amazing one-shot games in many other systems. I always hit the meetup.com groups when I travel and have some downtime, which has introduced me to some pretty obscure systems. But I find it difficult to find non-AL one shots for 5e. It is a shame. I think many 5e players who only have access to public play are missing out of an entirely different play experience for 5e.

I'm not saying that AL is a bad experience. If you can play regularly and find a good group, it can be a lot of fun. But for more casual and intermittent players, I don't think it provides the best experience.
 

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Zhaleskra

Adventurer
They only public RPG playing I do is at conventions. For a time, I was part of a group that would occasionally meet at a brewery, and it worked out OK. As for gaming in game stores, did it once, never again. No space, no real gatekeeping allowed, too loud.
 

PrometheanVigil

First Post
Overall, I've been very lucky with the DMs and the players. My issues are more with how organized play is organized.

Because I see a need, I'm thinking of running my own one shots. I would organize via meet up and have some geared for new players and some for only experienced players. Basically, I'm thinking 6-hour adventures for four players. It would be RAW PHB and DMG and would NOT use organized play rules. Players would have to select from a pregen.

I'm not saying that AL is a bad experience. If you can play regularly and find a good group, it can be a lot of fun. But for more casual and intermittent players, I don't think it provides the best experience.

I strongly suggest a different path: Found a club.

Found a club. Accomodate larger tables: 7-11 players is a nice size for club games (also an old standby but pricey destination for late-night gaming grub!). All gamebooks and supplements valid unless houseruled out. Get a doc together going over houserules, chargen and club info

Just run a normal campaign. Host a campaign that lasts a year's worth of session and then switch to a different one. At minimum six months but a year is the sweet spot. Hosting a persistent world is also key to player engagement -- earlier choices should have lasting consequences for newer players and the same in-turn when they become vets.

If you're really about this life, I'd suggest hiring a room so there's a neutral location for play. Ideally, this is a paid room which means you have full control of the venue and can ensure privacy for your players so they can roleplay freely. A private room (and bigger) is the primary thing that'll level-up your bar or apartment meetup to a real club -- of course, having regulars alongside casuals is very important too.

I've much more but wanted to keep this post very high-level. Hope it works out for you!
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
When it comes to noise, I find conventions as bad--if not worse--than FLGS.

Regarding gatekeeping, is their more gatekeeping at conventions? In some ways, gatekeeping is difficult. A DM running a public game at a game store usually has more leeway for booting players than at conventions where the players are paying money for tickets to the game, which gives some players an abusive sense of entitlement.


They only public RPG playing I do is at conventions. For a time, I was part of a group that would occasionally meet at a brewery, and it worked out OK. As for gaming in game stores, did it once, never again. No space, no real gatekeeping allowed, too loud.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
That's a good point and is a good option for many groups, made much more convenient with Meetup.com (and their current amazing deal with WeWork for free space for your Meetups).

But I already run a campaign from my home.

What I'm suggesting is missing is the option to play one shots that are not constrained by organized play rules. Specifically, the ability to go and play a higher level character for a one shot.

I've looked up gaming groups (using via Meetup.com) in the Twin Cities, Chicago, and New York over the past few years. It is really difficult to find opportunities to play higher tier D&D games. Almost all public play opportunities are AL. Not only do I not play enough in AL to level my characters beyond Tier 1, I've also run into rules about not being able to bring your character into a certain game because it has played in another game.

So, I've given up on the idea of playing D&D in public games. I generally search out and join games for other systems where it is far more common to run one-shots at various levels. This is lots of fun and I've experienced a number of systems I might not otherwise have played, but I really wish I could be a player in a 5e game now and than with a character above 5th level.

I strongly suggest a different path: Found a club.

Found a club. Accomodate larger tables: 7-11 players is a nice size for club games (also an old standby but pricey destination for late-night gaming grub!). All gamebooks and supplements valid unless houseruled out. Get a doc together going over houserules, chargen and club info

Just run a normal campaign. Host a campaign that lasts a year's worth of session and then switch to a different one. At minimum six months but a year is the sweet spot. Hosting a persistent world is also key to player engagement -- earlier choices should have lasting consequences for newer players and the same in-turn when they become vets.

If you're really about this life, I'd suggest hiring a room so there's a neutral location for play. Ideally, this is a paid room which means you have full control of the venue and can ensure privacy for your players so they can roleplay freely. A private room (and bigger) is the primary thing that'll level-up your bar or apartment meetup to a real club -- of course, having regulars alongside casuals is very important too.

I've much more but wanted to keep this post very high-level. Hope it works out for you!
 

S'mon

Legend
If you're really about this life, I'd suggest hiring a room so there's a neutral location for play. Ideally, this is a paid room which means you have full control of the venue and can ensure privacy for your players so they can roleplay freely. A private room (and bigger) is the primary thing that'll level-up your bar or apartment meetup to a real club -- of course, having regulars alongside casuals is very important too.

I just want to boast that my local pub - officially Best Pub in London 2018 - is letting me use the great upstairs function room for free, for a single-group Meetup, and have it all to myself! Not only that, I turned up Tuesday and they had set up the room for me with a single giant table in middle of room, perfect for the RPG group! I'm used to pubs in central London who moan if I move two tables together, so I was right chuffed!

I only wish I'd started running there years ago...
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I just want to boast that my local pub - officially Best Pub in London 2018 - is letting me use the great upstairs function room for free, for a single-group Meetup, and have it all to myself! Not only that, I turned up Tuesday and they had set up the room for me with a single giant table in middle of room, perfect for the RPG group! I'm used to pubs in central London who moan if I move two tables together, so I was right chuffed!

I only wish I'd started running there years ago...

That's awesome. I assume that you all are buying drinks and food. Having a regular, good-sized group spending money on drinks and food seems like a big plus to a pub.

When I lived in Taiwan there were these comic lounges. They had a mix of tables and lounge areas for different sized groups. You would pay a small hourly fee, which would come with one drink and you could order food and drinks while there. They had a large collection of illustrated novels and comics. It would have make an excellent gaming center.

Not sure if the model would work well in the USA. In most places it is just less expensive and easier to use your home. The closest I've seen in the USA is in New York where many of the delis have upstairs and basement seating areas that are dead at night and some game groups will meat there to play games. Good for the stores because folks buy their food and drinks there and otherwise unused space gets used.
 

S'mon

Legend
That's awesome. I assume that you all are buying drinks and food. Having a regular, good-sized group spending money on drinks and food seems like a big plus to a pub.

Oh yeah - we spend as much as possible; it's very reasonably priced so that's a lot of food and
drink (one player bought multiple toasties!).
The funny thing is my flat is a couple minutes walk away and (unusual for London) has a big living room perfect for hosting games, but I always struggle to get people to come play there, especially on a week night. I assumed this was because of location but I've had no trouble getting players to come play in the pub nearby so I suspect now it's a Londoner attitude thing. Going to a pub is just more 'normal' than going into domestic premises! :D
 
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Zhaleskra

Adventurer
When it comes to noise, I find conventions as bad--if not worse--than FLGS.

Regarding gatekeeping, is their more gatekeeping at conventions? In some ways, gatekeeping is difficult. A DM running a public game at a game store usually has more leeway for booting players than at conventions where the players are paying money for tickets to the game, which gives some players an abusive sense of entitlement.

When the convention gives you allows you to set the experience you want the players to have, and rate the complexity of the rules: In general, the higher both are set, the less likely you are to get uninvested players. As for jerks, that's what security is for, if they continue after you've calmly explained how their behavior is lessening the game for others and "please, stop".
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Oh yeah - we spend as much as possible; it's very reasonably priced so that's a lot of food and
drink (one player bought multiple toasties!).
The funny thing is my flat is a couple minutes walk away and (unusual for London) has a big living room perfect for hosting games, but I always struggle to get people to come play there, especially on a week night. I assumed this was because of location but I've had no trouble getting players to come play in the pub nearby so I suspect now it's a Londoner attitude thing. Going to a pub is just more 'normal' than going into domestic premises! :D


Hmmm...maybe if you stop inviting people to come to your place and play in your dungeon...

:)

It's weird. Every now and then things ingrained in your from your childhood resurface. I'm not comfortable playing TTRPGs "in public" -- outside of conventions or FLGSs. I remember a time where doing so would be an invitation to get your ass kicked.
 
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