D&D General Should Baldur's Gate 3 be turnbased or Real Time With Pause?

Seramus · Jul 14, 2019

I’ve got to be honest. RTWP made me design parties specifically around the real time part, so I wouldn’t have to pause and micro so much. A real turn based game would feel much more like D&D.

gyor · Jul 15, 2019

not-so-newguy said:
I prefer Turn based games over Real Time, but Baldur’s Gate wouldn’t be Baldur’s Gate without Real Time w/ Pause.

News flash it's not really going to be Baldur's Gate in the way you mean it, no matter what the combat system. Ignore the name of the game, and look at the stuff they said.

not-so-newguy · Jul 15, 2019

gyor said:
News flash it's not really going to be Baldur's Gate in the way you mean it, no matter what the combat system. Ignore the name of the game, and look at the stuff they said.

Will they be making it Commodore 64 compatible?

MarkB · Jul 15, 2019

not-so-newguy said:
Will they be making it Commodore 64 compatible?

That isn't stuff that they've said, at least so far.

not-so-newguy · Jul 15, 2019

MarkB said:
That isn't stuff that they've said, at least so far.

My comment was just a small (very small. As in “not worth explaining” small) joke.

Carry on and Load “*”,8,1 everyone!

WaterRabbit · Jul 15, 2019

Having just finished Pathfinder: Kingmaker, I have to say that RTwP doesn't work with D&D style combat at all. All of the nuance of the system goes away. Just like in the original Baldur's Gate series, a party of fighters armed with bows can steam-roll almost all of the opposition. Only occasionally did I feel the need to cast spells. By the time a spell caster fired off their spell the target would be destroyed by the bows.

There is no 5-foot step or other interesting tactical positioning.

In my mind RTwP works for people that want to play a the easiest level of the game. Once the challenge rating increases, RTwP becomes more and more of a handicap. It is like trying to play 6 characters in an MMO. If I have to pause every second to adjust to circumstances, then just give me turn-based. I literally cannot imagine trying to play X-Com as RTwP and it is a simpler system than Pathfinder and D&D.

It should definitely be turn-based or scrap the system and build one that works with RTwP.

Blue · Jul 15, 2019

I want to give examples from Pillars of Eternity and Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire. While not D&D, they were of similar concept. They were real time with AI and pauses (including auto pauses).

In PoE, I found that if I let the AI use limited resources like spells, they would use them up in ways I disagreed with. If I didn't let the AI use limited spells (and the like), then easy/trivial combats I'd just run thought, but most other combats I'd be pausing a lot to handle my multitudes of spellcasters, plus needing to be more controlling of others as well not to get them into area of effects.

In PoE2

eadfire, they changed the spell system and class feature system so that spells were per-encounter, with very few per-rest abilities and none of those triggered by the AI. I find myself just pausing occasionally to direct the combat and not worried about micro-managing it that a turn-by-turn would involve.

Since D&D is closer to the first of there, with even more resource management, I think turn-by-turn will give the truer experience. Not that real time is off the table - a good system of when to pause, or event the AI includes a "approve use of limited resource" dialog could do the same thing. So the party fights and depending on class you get more or less auto interruptions.

Blue · Jul 15, 2019

Xaelvaen said:
Both (thus why I voted Other).

Pillars of Eternity 2 made it so that when you start the game, you can choose action, or turn-based. It works -phenomenally- with both. This should definitely be the direction so that all preferences can be enjoyed.

Barring that, I definitely agree with keeping it turn-based; as others have said, at Larian, they are masters of Turn-Based.

PoE2 changed the spell system from the original PoE to all spells refreshing after each combat, so it wasn't a problem if the AI burned through spells in an encounter.

The original PoE had spells recover on a (long) rest like D&D, and there real time with AI was an issue - either you let the AI use them and would burn through them quickly, or you didn't in which case it was effectively turn based as you be pausing often to cast.

So PoE2 isn't a great analog for D&D combat where there's a lot of long rest recovery spells and class features. The original PoE was closer, and that did have issues with real time because of AI use of them.

Blue · Jul 15, 2019

[MENTION=2445]WaterRabbit[/MENTION] - I do agree with your points. I just wanted to point out that XCom is a lot like D&D 4e in having a lot of "this exact square vs. that square" in terms of positioning, cover, line of sight and effects. It needs a high level of precise, tactical control even if the system is less complex.

I'm not saying this to refute your point, just mentioning that example has some differences between D&D 5e.

Sacrosanct · Jul 15, 2019

For me, it has to be turned based. Not another Sword Coast Legends disaster (going to real time essentially ruins the D&D experience for me as they aren't compatible). That's why I'm glad Larian is running the show. Divinity is a great turn based game.