D&D 5E Ranged party member keeps running off the map

CheezyRamen · May 14, 2017

CapnZapp said:
No.

PHB pg. 20, Dwarf Traits Speed,
" Your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing Heavy Armor."

PHB pg 144. Armor and Shields, Heavy Armor,
" Heavier Armor interferes with the wearer's ability to move quickly, stealthily, and freely. If the Armor table shows " Str 13" or "Str 15" in the Strength column for an armor type, the armor reduces the wearer's speed by 10 feet unless the wearer has a Strength score equal to or higher than the listed score"

This puts Dwarves at a speed advantage over other fighters with similar stats.

Uchawi · May 14, 2017

Ranged weapons win based on 5E's stripped down combat system, including movement. The DM must force it through terrain like confined spaces. You need more detail on ranged combat to allow the system itself to address it, but that is not 5E.

CapnZapp · May 14, 2017

Ilbranteloth said:
Yes. In general, having mounted and ranged opponents is a big thing. They were huge advantages historically.

This is exactly why fantasy games does everything in their power to reduce and nerf those advantages.

Weak ranged attacks and slow combat movement are not coincidental rules of most fantasy rpgs.

These rules were invented for a reason, and that reason is fantasy games don't want historical combat - fantasy games idolize Conanesque combat where brawn and courage is paramount and where smarts and reflexes does you little good.

The same with hit points. The main reason for hit points is to reduce the importance of hitting first. And, pointedly, range is the most helpful trait if you need to hit first.

In essence, every combat rule in fantasy is engineered to work against the old adage "don't bring a sword to a gun fight". In the most extreme fantasy depictions, it's almost the reverse "don't bring a gun to a sword fight".

guachi · May 14, 2017

Two fixes I can see:

One - Change how ranged combat works. Remove or alter Sharpshooters ability to negate range and cover penalties. Delete those features or rewrite the feat. Prevent the -5/+10 feature from working at long range or remove it entirely. Remove ability bonus to damage at long range because of reduced missile velocity.

Two - Make creatures faster. Allow creatures to charge and Dash as a bonus action if they move more-or-less in a straight line and if they take Dash as their action. This allows creatures or PCs to close faster with those who wish to attack. It also allows creatures or PCs to flee faster.

CheezyRamen · May 14, 2017

Even so, melee does more damage per hit. As Dex mod does not impact damage on a ranged attack but Strength mod does impact a melee hit.

As well as Melee users typically have higher AC and more HP. I am not sure where the idea of meta for ranged combat, as the ranged combat is best theory is easily countered with a backup throwing axe,hammer,dagger (whatever flavor you want)

CapnZapp · May 14, 2017

Uchawi said:
Ranged weapons win based on 5E's stripped down combat system, including movement. The DM must force it through terrain like confined spaces. You need more detail on ranged combat to allow the system itself to address it, but that is not 5E.

I don't consider "the game works, but only if the DM fixes it" to be a reasonable argument. If the DM has to fix the game, it's broken.

Besides, the reason ranged weapons win is because of many things, of which terrain is only one. See my list earlier of ten 3e restrictions on range that 5e relaxed.

Nothing says 5e had to relax those restrictions, especially not all ten of them. There is nothing inherent to 5e that is funamentally incompatible with those restrictions.

CapnZapp · May 14, 2017

CheezyRamen said:
Even so, melee does more damage per hit. As Dex mod does not impact damage on a ranged attack but Strength mod does impact a melee hit.

As well as Melee users typically have higher AC and more HP. I am not sure where the idea of meta for ranged combat, as the ranged combat is best theory is easily countered with a backup throwing axe,hammer,dagger (whatever flavor you want)

Now I'm losing you...? My entire point is that these are assumptions people take for granted, that isn't borne out by actual observation.

CapnZapp · May 14, 2017

guachi said:
Two fixes I can see:

One - Change how ranged combat works.

Two - Make creatures faster.

I agree with your conclusion.

Since higher Speed blurs the distinction between slow tanks and fast strikers, I tend to avoid solution #2. Also since you need bigger maps etc. In general, the game is calibrated for relatively small-area skirmishes, so that's another reason to choose #1.

CheezyRamen · May 14, 2017

CapnZapp said:
Now I'm losing you...?

Sorry, that was more me trying to wrap my head around the idea of ranged being better. Let's take an example.

Dwarf plate axe fighter against Human leather bow fighter.

I would say that if it were 1 v 1 in an open field, yes the Human would have the advantage as long as the dwarven fighter had no other means to also bring his attack to a ranged attack. Say he had a throwing axe, not only is his high strength modifier going to help him hit, its going to be easier to hit the human because of his lack of armor (tho his dex may help him a few points.) if you stick that human in heavy armor, he loses that dexterity bonus altogether. I admit that he could simply use Thrown weapons as well but as a human he would then be slower than the dwarf unless he had str 15+. Then his thrown ranged weapons do NOT measure to a great axe/battleaxe w.e melee weapon you want most likely.

I am just not sure where ranged = better

CapnZapp · May 14, 2017

CheezyRamen said:
PHB pg. 20, Dwarf Traits Speed,
" Your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing Heavy Armor."

PHB pg 144. Armor and Shields, Heavy Armor,
" Heavier Armor interferes with the wearer's ability to move quickly, stealthily, and freely. If the Armor table shows " Str 13" or "Str 15" in the Strength column for an armor type, the armor reduces the wearer's speed by 10 feet unless the wearer has a Strength score equal to or higher than the listed score"

This puts Dwarves at a speed advantage over other fighters with similar stats.

No - nobody in their right mind puts on heavy armor unless they meet the Strength requirements.
Assuming a reasonably well-built fighter is slowed by armor is yet another assumption that was true in 3e that simply no longer is.

D&D 5E Ranged party member keeps running off the map

CheezyRamen

First Post

Uchawi

First Post

CapnZapp

Legend

guachi

Hero

CheezyRamen

First Post

CapnZapp

Legend

CapnZapp

Legend

CapnZapp

Legend

CheezyRamen

First Post

CapnZapp

Legend

Similar Threads