D&D General If you could put D&D into any other non middle ages genre, what would it be?

Oofta · Jun 25, 2019

CapnZapp said:
Don't be silly. No D&D based wild west game will keep the rules, character stats and class abilities exactly the same as in the PHB. Of course there will be changes.

Wow. So you've decided that no one anywhere ever ran a wild west game without changing rules? That's either the height of hubris or now your just pulling our legs that you really believe that. I might tweak the firearms a little bit because they should be slightly less effective than the modern equivalent but otherwise I don't see why I'd change a single thing.

Well, that and add gatling guns for my ogres. Because I want to replicate super mutants from Fallout.

MarkB · Jun 25, 2019

CapnZapp said:
How does it help to bring up bows and crossbows?

As an example of already-existing deadly ranged weapons in 5e that can indeed kill enemies before they even get close?

For someone who complains about how much everyone else is missing his point, you certainly have a talent for missing everybody else's point.

CapnZapp · Jun 25, 2019

MarkB said:
A CR3 Archer from Volo's Guide to Monsters fires twice per round, and deals an average of 8 damage per hit. If the person advancing on them has a low AC, which a character in a Western setting will, they can take down an average-HP character from a 3rd level party in two turns - so, unless their opponent wins initiative and is close enough to close the distance in one turn, yes they can kill them before being punched in the face.

Low AC... high damage... Few hit points.

It's all aspects of the same thing.

It all represents your growing realization it is the hit point based damage model that is the crux of the issue.

Not saying you can't overcome it. Only that it's quite natural if you decide not to, and swit h to a non-hp based game.

MarkB · Jun 25, 2019

Oofta said:
Wow. So you've decided that no one anywhere ever ran a wild west game without changing rules? That's either the height of hubris or now your just pulling our legs that you really believe that. I might tweak the firearms a little bit because they should be slightly less effective than the modern equivalent but otherwise I don't see why I'd change a single thing.

Well, that and add gatling guns for my ogres. Because I want to replicate super mutants from Fallout.

Indeed, it can work very well that way. The Shadowrunesque game I ran made absolutely no changes to the base classes, only introducing some new optional subclasses and backgrounds.

Oofta · Jun 25, 2019

Another cool campaign idea. D&D Fallout. Magic suddenly started working in an alternate modern day which caused people to panic and let the nukes fly. In this new version of reality radiation really is magic. I don't think you'd even need to change much. Fallout already uses HP, armor, melee weapons, magic healing, mini-nukes. Well, maybe not mini-nukes but meteor storm is about the same. You could always re-flavor spells as tech if you wanted to, but I don't think you need to.

I may have to run some mini campaigns to play with some of these ideas.

Oofta · Jun 25, 2019

CapnZapp said:
My entire point is I'm not saying "basically". You're simplifying to the point of insult. You either can't or won't get my point, so I certainly won't repeat them. Read my existing posts.

PS. They're not about houserules. They're about the fundamental properties of hit point based games.

I quoted your posts back to you a few pages ago. If you care to clarify please do.

MarkB · Jun 25, 2019

CapnZapp said:
Low AC... high damage... Few hit points.

It's all aspects of the same thing.

It all represents your growing realization it is the hit point based damage model that is the crux of the issue.

Not saying you can't overcome it. Only that it's quite natural if you decide not to, and swit h to a non-hp based game.

Please don't tell me what I think or realise. I reference low AC because I've never seen a cowboy wearing plate mail. If I were going to use D&D in a vanilla Western setting I'd find other ways for characters to gain AC, such as an improved cover system, because I don't visualise cowboys as wearing armour.

But if I were going to run a campaign in a modern or near-future setting (which I have), I'd leave armour exactly as it is, and just re-skin it as Kevlar or similar modern body armour.

Oofta · Jun 25, 2019

MarkB said:
Please don't tell me what I think or realise. I reference low AC because I've never seen a cowboy wearing plate mail. If I were going to use D&D in a vanilla Western setting I'd find other ways for characters to gain AC, such as an improved cover system, because I don't visualise cowboys as wearing armour.

But if I were going to run a campaign in a modern or near-future setting (which I have), I'd leave armour exactly as it is, and just re-skin it as Kevlar or similar modern body armour.

I might still let my cowboys wear armor because the world would be different with magic and dragons. Maybe instead of steel it's hardened giant spider silk, needs to be adamantium or even just say that the dwarves make really high quality steel.

Tony Vargas · Jun 25, 2019

CapnZapp said:
I'm talking about how in a hp-based game you can* act like Conan the Barbarian and just stride up to your opponent - your hit points protect you. Actually they are there for that purpose.

You can, in D&D, at a point. That point is reasonably high level, and if you're willing to have your Conan be more the later REH version, in full armor.
If you're insisting on the oiled-up bodybuilder movie version, you'll really need a whole lot of hps, more than D&D typically gives you.
Well, and if you have some way of dishing out the sheer volume of attacks to build yourself a pile of dead bodies to stand on... less-than-1HD enemies in 1e, or Great Cleave or whatever.

If you want characters to move and act "naturally", not exposed, behind cover, it is perfectly understandable to want to explore other games than hp-based ones. Games where not just the last bullet poses the threat.... that has very little to do with "realism" or "firearms should be deadlier than axes"

The only two factors there appear to be "realism" and "bullets are deadly."

Oofta said:
Wow. So you've decided that no one anywhere ever ran a wild west game without changing rules? That's either the height of hubris or now your just pulling our legs that you really believe that. .

To be fair, back in the day, we were /always/ changing rules, even for regular D&D-esque fantasy.

MarkB said:
I reference low AC because I've never seen a cowboy wearing plate mail. If I were going to use D&D in a vanilla Western setting I'd find other ways for characters to gain AC, such as an improved cover system, because I don't visualise cowboys as wearing armour.

That's another reason to seek cover, I guess.

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 25, 2019

MarkB said:
I reference low AC because I've never seen a cowboy wearing plate mail. If I were going to use D&D in a vanilla Western setting I'd find other ways for characters to gain AC, such as an improved cover system, because I don't visualise cowboys as wearing armour.

Feats or class features could add HP and/or improve AC based on how tough as nails they are. Or how preternaturally aware of their surroundings they are.

I could see one that reduces damage to 1 pt per die done on a successful save because the character has extremely fast reflexes and turns hits into merely being winged.