D&D 5E ASI's at Character Level instead of Class Level

SubDude · Sep 20, 2017

I believe the PHB is explicitly clear that your ASI / Feats are tied only to your class levels. Thus a multi-classed Fighter 3 / Rogue 3 has zero ASI's / Feats (assuming no Variant Human feat).

That said, I know of at least one DM who is purposefully "misinterpreting" this rule to allow ASI's and Feats at Character levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19. "That depends on how you interpret the rule," she says.

She's clearly wrong that this is a matter of "interpreting," and is House Ruling to get to her desired "interpretation." I asked how she handled the fighter's extra ASI's and she said THOSE ASI's are tied to class level. Weird, but okay.

Given all this, are there any unforeseen pitfalls that you'd expect from playing the game this way?

There'd be less "cost" to multi-classing, so there'd probably be more multi-classing and potentially more feats. I don't think this breaks the game. What, if anything, am I missing?

Kobold Avenger · Sep 20, 2017

I think it's a good house-rule to have, as I feel that multi-classing is penalized too much with the current rules. But it should be pointed out that Fighters and Rogues do gain ASI's at level that all the other classes don't gain any at, in those cases they should be "bonus ASI's".

lowkey13 · Sep 20, 2017

*Deleted by user*

akr71 · Sep 20, 2017

If it is a DM's house rule, then there is not much you can do except argue about it, which isn't likely to resolve anything and just create acrimony and hard feelings at the table. My advice is to let it go and have fun..

The only thing I see happening is the characters will end up with ASI's or Feats sooner and more often, which has the end result of the party being slightly more powerful and feeling more heroic.

For clarification, how is the DM going to handle the ASI handed at class level? In your example, the F3/R3 will get an ASI at character level 4 - what happens when he/she is character level 7? That will bump him/her to F4/R3 or F3/R4, meaning another ASI or feat according to the class table (& RAW). Do they 'double dip' or get nothing?

chunkosauruswrex · Sep 20, 2017

lowkey13 said:
Very little "breaks," in 5e but I don't think this DM has really thought this houserule through very well.

As a threshhold issue, this ruling greatly privileges multiclassing over singleclassing. Especially those who multiclass multiple times (more than dual-class; in other words, there is no real detriment to "dipping" in many classes).

By itself, that's no big deal. If a DM wants a campaign with a lot of multiclassing, that might even make sense to houserule.

The reason it's poorly thought out is because of the Fighter. It doesn't make sense. You can't both say that it's tied into generic class level, and also a special fighter bonus. That doesn't work together.

Does that mean that a multiclass fighter gets the benefit of both the "class level" ASI as well as their own ASIs?

If a player makes it to, say, Fighter 6/Wizard 6, how many ASIs do they get? They should get the three from being level 12 (per the DM's system)- how many additional one from being a fighter? Just the one at level 6? If that's the case, then suddenly making it to level 6 in a fighter becomes a huge bonus in this system.

I think some more thought needs to be put into it, but no, it doesn't break anything. It's just a strange houserule.

I think you are looking at this wrong it's already a big bonus to get to level 6 as a single classed fighter as with a standard array you can already max a stat unlike any other class. Having additional class features is a thing. Champions get an additional Fighting style at a certain class leve which no other class gets. Lore Bards get additional magic secrets at 6. You could literally just reword the fighter to have a feature at 6 called additional ASIs that call out that they are fighter dependent and call out the fighter levels at which they occur. The ASIs are already a class feature now you just separate it.

As far as power levels go yes it makes PCs stronger and empowers powergaming, but it would allow for more interesting functional builds that may be more MAD than normal.

lowkey13 · Sep 20, 2017

*Deleted by user*

lowkey13 · Sep 20, 2017

*Deleted by user*

FrogReaver · Sep 20, 2017

DM is wrong. i don't think any side effects from the change are big enough to worry about. Multiclassing is still weak pre level 5. (Except for warlock dips). Other multiclasses may get a feat/ ASI 1-2 levels earlier. Not a big deal IMO.

Xeviat · Sep 20, 2017

The problem is then a multiclass character suddenly has dead levels, depending on how they progress. An X2/Y2 also has more features than an X4 generally speaking.

I'd support a thought out revision to have ASIs be character level and feats be class level, but that would be a power up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chunkosauruswrex · Sep 20, 2017

lowkey13 said:
Um, no?

The RAW are there for a specific reason. I disagree strongly with [MENTION=779]Kobold Avenger[/MENTION] when he states that "multi-classing is penalized too much under the current rules."

When you multi-class, you can get significant benefits from the new class (or classes). The drawback is that you acquire your your class-specific class bonuses more slowly- including the ASIs. That's the balance. Some would argue that, given that most campaigns don't last until high level play (12+), that's not enough of a drawback, but still, that is a balance.

This houserule undoes that balance. Which is fine, if the DM is deliberately starting a campaign that privileges (encourages) multiclassing. But I think the DM should think through the fighter/rogues aspects a little better- this isn't an interpretation, it's a houserule. It's not sufficient to say that those classes have them tied to their class abilities (that's nonsensical given the rest of the houserule); instead, it needs to be clarified as to which ASIs abilities are "bonus" ones that they receive.

I know and acknowledge that this is specifically a house rule which will make multiclassing stronger, but I personally don't see it as an issue as long as your players aren't intensely powergamers. I mean at most it would allow a multiclass character to match a pure fighters ASIs or get the normal 5.