Burning Questions: What's the Worst Thing a DM Can Do?

Rya.Reisender · Sep 19, 2018

Caliban said:
That's great...if Jeremy Crawford is your DM.

No. Jeremy Crawford is the creator, so he makes the rules. Not the DM, that's what I explained in my last something posts.

DMs that feel entitled to mess with the ruleset just piss me off and that's why it's my top 1 "Worst thing a DM can do". And yes I don't like it and thus don't play.

GMMichael · Sep 19, 2018

Arrrrr...

belphanor said:
I've had a GM say "your character wouldn't do that, it isn't what their personality would allow". I've also had the same GM say, "If you guys didn't suck so badly, I wouldn't have to cheat to keep you alive."
(that last one was because he had set us against a 20th level dragon when we were 10th level in a 4th ed campaign. If there had been ANY way to escape that combat, we would have used it.)
I'm also not a big fan of the whole "you need to solve this puzzle, out of character, based on some obscure bit of setting trivia, to get past this blockage" especially when the setting is a homebrew and the GM is not forthcoming with any setting info.

Can we please pool our resources and make sure belphanor gets a good GM next time?

Caliban said:
I've also quit a game because the DM effectively turned my Noble background character into his NPC puppet by having the king send him on ridiculous missions that required the character to do morally questionable things in order to succeed.

Oh, were you thinking fantasy noble? Your DM must have been thinking real noble.

Jay Verkuilen said:
Ah, what I would mean by "roll for Athletics" would be "roll for Athletics, unless you want to do something else instead" with the latter implied.

Sorry to wade into your conversation, mateys, but shouldn't this statement be, "what do you do?" This also implies "unless you want to do something else."

Also, in case you haven't been keel-hauled off the thread yet, to those of you who think a GM should use only the rules or officially-sanctioned rulings, have you ever tried GMing? How did it go?

Jay Verkuilen · Sep 19, 2018

Rya.Reisender said:
No. Jeremy Crawford is the creator, so he makes the rules. Not the DM, that's what I explained in my last something posts.

DMs that feel entitled to mess with the ruleset just piss me off and that's why it's my top 1 "Worst thing a DM can do". And yes I don't like it and thus don't play.

You should hook up with iserith! I think you two have similar perspectives.

Caliban · Sep 19, 2018

Rya.Reisender said:
No. Jeremy Crawford is the creator, so he makes the rules. Not the DM, that's what I explained in my last something posts.

And you would be incorrect. Jeremy isn't "the creator". He helped some other guys update and modify some existing rules. He's not infallible and he's not the one running the game you are playing.

The one who makes the actual rules of the game you are actually playing is the actual Dungeon Master. Not some guy who wrote some guidelines months ago and isn't present at the game.

DMs that feel entitled to mess with the ruleset just piss me off and that's why it's my top 1 "Worst thing a DM can do". And yes I don't like it and thus don't play.

I get the feeling you don't play much.

Jay Verkuilen · Sep 19, 2018

DMMike said:
Sorry to wade into your conversation, mateys, but shouldn't this statement be, "what do you do?"

Yeah, that is arrrr-guably better, though sometimes I just ask for the most likely action with the assumption that the players could suggest something else. Folks I play with are fairly used to that and often say "can I use XYX instead?" or "I'm going to use PQR instead" if they intend to do something else and most of the time I'll just say sure, go ahead. I'm not bothered by it as a player, either, as long as a meaningful choice is provided, even if it's not explicitly asked for.

Also, in case you haven't been keel-hauled off the thread yet, to those of you who think a GM should use only the rules or officially-sanctioned rulings, have you ever tried GMing? How did it go?

IMO that's a very good question, especially when one tries to run a home game. With the hardcore "official or nothing" logic one would not be using any third party material, either, presumably. I know someone who's like that, partly because of past experiences with people bringing in really OP third party material back in the 3.X days.

Umbran · Sep 19, 2018

Allow me to engage in a bit of setting of perspective...

The *worst* things a GM can do have nothing to do with amending rules, or fudging... they have nothing to do with play. The worst things the GM can do are more around being a horrible person.

For example, the GM can come to your house unwashed, and reeking of stale sweat and cigarettes. Lots of people playing at cons have perhaps experienced this.

Or, also unfortunately common, a GM can sexually harass a player.

So, I submit that anything having to do with not playing the game exactly the way you want is a mild annoyance compared to the really bad things they can do.

iserith · Sep 19, 2018

Jay Verkuilen said:
From Googling, this doesn't seem to be nearly so cut and dried given how much question and debate there is. For example here. Even Jeremy Crawford thinks that Passive Perception is always "switched on" so I don't know I buy your interpretation as being what RAI is. I tend to assume that unless you declare you're clearly not watching it would apply and use it to determine an adversary's Stealth DC accordingly.

Passive Perception is always "switched on" in combat (see "Hiding" sidebar, Basic Rules, page 60). But outside of combat it would fall under the rules for "Activities While Traveling" (Basic Rules, pages 64-65) which includes traveling overland or through dungeons at paces ranging from feet per minute to hours per day. If you perform an activity other than Keeping Watch, you "don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats."

Therefore, it's a very good idea in my view to make sure the players establish what their characters are doing in these situations.

Jay Verkuilen said:
Ah, what I would mean by "roll for Athletics" would be "roll for Athletics, unless you want to do something else instead" with the latter implied. My players know this so if they say "I want to cast Water Walk instead" or "I'm going to dive into the water and ride the current instead" my answer would be "sure, go ahead."

Basically, my call for a check isn't to make that particular check specifically (in general) but to make that or offer an alternative.

You could just describe the environment and ask "What do you do?"

Caliban · Sep 19, 2018

DMMike said:
Oh, were you thinking fantasy noble? Your DM must have been thinking real noble.

Pretty much. And it wasn't like my character was being asked to do blatantly evil things. In the context of the game world he would have bitten his tongue and done what needed to be done.

I just realized that it was bothering me much more than my character, and finally there was a situation that crossed a line (a line I didn't realized mattered to me until it happened), and I just wasn't enjoying the game at all anymore. So I withdrew.

Jay Verkuilen · Sep 19, 2018

iserith said:
Passive Perception is always "switched on" in combat (see "Hiding" sidebar, Basic Rules, page 60). But outside of combat it would fall under the rules for "Activities While Traveling" (Basic Rules, pages 64-65) which includes traveling overland or through dungeons at paces ranging from feet per minute to hours per day. If you perform an activity other than Keeping Watch, you "don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats."

Therefore, it's a very good idea in my view to make sure the players establish what their characters are doing in these situations.

Ah, yeah, I didn't recall the exact terminology but that's basically how I handle it, with the proviso that you don't need to explicitly say "I'm on guard". If you're engaged in something else then you're not but otherwise you are. See below about "defaulting".

You could just describe the environment and ask "What do you do?"

I frequently do say exactly that.

I think the big point of disagreement here is the use of defaults. I fall on the side of "DM suggests a default action with the proviso that the player can provide an alternative" whereas you seem to fall on the side of "DM should always say 'what do you do?' and players then declare actions." In some respects this is the same thing but there's a difference in tension implied by "make a roll or (implied) make a counteroffer of some sort" and "what do you do?" The latter is fairly passive and puts it back on the players to evaluate the situation. I want to keep the game going because IMO execution speed is a huge energy loss, particularly in a stress situation. "Make an Athletics check to start swimming" implies urgency.

MNblockhead · Sep 19, 2018

jasper said:
Now I have to use EDUCATIONAL SKILLZ!

I really should not. Do it! Do it. No I should not! Do it. Ok evil little jasper in my head.
Homework.
Lanefan I feel you not are engaging with the group. Read Getting Along
https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Alon...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1537361722&sr=8-1
I want 500 words on how it applies to a 5 person homebrew and 8 person AL table. MFLA format.
Ray Reisender. I need a list of all school supply stores in the greater New York City, New York and London England. Only include those who sell dice which can be used in D&D. Exclude those who only sell % dice which die within die.
Jay Verkuilen using Chicago Style of documentation. Compare and Contrast the Weapon chart in the 5E PHB against the weapon chart on the 1E DM Screen. The 4 page and 2 page psionic version. Min 20 words per weapon.
Maxperson. You brought devil cheese pizza. I hate cheese pizza. Detention report to Walston on Saturday.
Everyone Read Chapters 4 -8 Of Saga of the Old City https://www.amazon.com/Saga-Old-Cit...TF8&qid=1537362606&sr=8-6&keywords=gary+gygax Be prepared to give a 100 essay.
All this is due MONDAY. Now give me an “ARRRRRGH”. Class and game dismiss. Have fun!

Extra XP for the style-guide mentions. But you forgot:

"MNBlockhead, using the Harvard Bluebook system of legal citation, write a publishable law review paper on the correctness of my stealth rulings and whether an invisible golem requires a perception check. Then, after you are done, report immediately to detention for rules lawyering!"

Burning Questions: What's the Worst Thing a DM Can Do?

David J. Buck

Rya.Reisender

Explorer

GMMichael

Guide of Modos

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers

Caliban

Rules Monkey

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers

Umbran

Mod Squad

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

Caliban

Rules Monkey

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site

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