D&D 5E Berserker Barbarians: Wait what?

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

Gronks a moron for using frenzy 3 times.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 12, 2019

Even if you ignore the exhaustion mechanic Totem Barbarians simply have more flavour than berserkers.

Sorcerers Apprentice · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Gronks a moron for using frenzy 3 times.

Gronk is a moron for picking berserker when much better options are available. Why would anyone want to play a subclass where you rarely get to use your signature ability?

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

It's a good ability. Treat it as a daily power.

Barbarians basically sick anyway imho.

jaelis · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Gronks a moron for using frenzy 3 times.

Well that’s what you get when you dump Int

Sword of Spirit · Jun 12, 2019

Mathematically, a Zealot barbarian does the same damage as a frenzying berserker with no penalty (and they don't need any feats to do it) and their other abilities are just as good as berserker. That to me is the design team admitting they goofed on the balance of berserker and they are balanced without exhaustion. That, or the Zealot is strait-up over-powered. Take your pick, because that's where the balance point lays.

Staffan · Jun 12, 2019

Immoralkickass said:
I think the main problem is with the Exhaustion mechanics. Racking up Exhaustion stacks is one thing, getting rid of them is another. Trying to wipe out 3 stacks of Exhaustion without the help of magic is going to take 3 long rests, and Gronk may not have that much time. At this point, Gronk might as well be playing the gritty long rest rules that only apply to himself, because he is going to look like an obese man trying to keep up with a bunch of Olympians.

It would appear that the barbarian, and particularly the berserker, changed a bunch in the later stages of the playtest. I was looking at the final playtest package, and noticed:

* Raging barbarians did not get resistance to physical damage. Instead they gained 2*barbarian level temp hp.
* Berserkers did not get extra attacks for frenzy - the berserker abilities were mostly about being immune to fear and later charm when raging. At 10th level they got the ability to make an extra attack if they missed with one attack which would make them more consistent damage dealers without increasing their top damage.
* Pretty much all the abilities of totem warriors worked differently. The level 3 abilities were constant and the level 6 abilities triggered on entering a rage, instead of the reverse.

I'll also note that there was no exhaustion condition in the last playtest version. My guess is that the Frenzy ability originally applied something like the 3e Fatigued condition lasting until the end of the encounter or until they could take a short rest, and then the exhaustion rules changed and nobody caught the effect it would have on berserkers.

Raunalyn · Jun 12, 2019

I've always been a fan of house-ruling that Berserkers don't feel the effects of exhaustion while raging. Thematically appropriate, and it makes using frenzy a bit more tempting.

MechaTarrasque · Jun 12, 2019

The only problem with frenzy is that the best strategy for playing it (saving it for the big fight) is contrary to the fluff of the class (wild person attacking everything). The easiest solution is to just flip frenzy with retaliation. Both of them have the goal of letting you swing your axe more, and both come with penalties (you do have to get hit to make retaliation work), but I would argue the penalty for retaliation is less, since as a front-liner, you are probably going to get hit regardless of whether you have retaliation or not.

Hawk Diesel · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Gronks a moron for using frenzy 3 times.

So... a berserker barbarian using frenzy is more taxing than a spell caster casting any spell above 3rd level?

See, this is the thing that gets me. A berserker barbarian could literally frenzy themselves to death, yet a spell caster can cast spells non-stop round after round, and then cast cantrips indefinitely after running out, and there is no explicit exhaustion mechanic tied to that. A high level spellcaster could obliterate a small town with meteor swarm, and it is no more taxing than swinging a dagger. But a barbarian wants to swing that dagger one more time per round... that's the line!

A paladin could smite on every single attack until they run out of spell slots, but no exhaustion mechanic there. No penalty for using their signature ability.

Hell, a dual wielding fighter can eventually get 4 attacks a round, even a level 5 monk, but Moloch forbid a barbarian to get THREE attacks in a round!