Official D&D Sage Advice Compendium Updated

BluejayJunior · Feb 1, 2019

DM Dave1 said:
Disagree. "the creature spends its action that turn retching and reeling." Hence the creature has wasted its action or, put another way, it is deprived of taking real actions outlined in the PHB. Hence no bonus action per PHB rule that [MENTION=1207]Ristamar[/MENTION] quoted.

The creature still has it's action, it is just being forced to use it in a specific way. That way may be wasteful, but it isn't being mechanically deprived of the action. The Action is still being taken. Stinking Cloud does not "deprive you of the ability to take actions" even though the action you take is not beneficial.

Swarmkeeper · Feb 1, 2019

Yunru said:
Not at all. There's a big difference between "Cannot take it's action" (See Petrified and... Slowed?) and "must spend it's action doing" (See Fear)

Perhaps you are right. But in the case of Stinking Cloud, "must spend it's action doing" the retching and the reeling may effectively be the same thing as "cannot take it's action". Right? Bonus action spells like Healing Word or Misty Step? Yeah, verbal component doesn't work so well while you're retching. Rogue Cunning Action bonus action to Dash or Dodge? Not so much when you are doubled over reeling. Maybe Cunning Action to Hide, I suppose, but likely at Disadvantage since, you know, noisy and staggering. Druid coming out of wild shape? Probably - but jeez now we're getting into real edge cases.

Perhaps rulings not rules covers it. At the table, regardless of how one wants to interpret Sage Advice or the PHB, if a player had a really good explanation for why they could carry out their bonus action while under the effects of Stinking Cloud, of course I'd say "yes". Or... "yes and... Dex save to not slip on the stuff that's on the floor!"

dave2008 · Feb 1, 2019

DM Dave1 said:
Perhaps you are right. But in the case of Stinking Cloud, "must spend it's action doing" the retching and the reeling may effectively be the same thing as "cannot take it's action". Right? Bonus action spells like Healing Word or Misty Step? Yeah, verbal component doesn't work so well while you're retching. Rogue Cunning Action bonus action to Dash or Dodge? Not so much when you are doubled over reeling. Maybe Cunning Action to Hide, I suppose, but likely at Disadvantage since, you know, noisy and staggering. Druid coming out of wild shape? Probably - but jeez now we're getting into real edge cases.

Perhaps rulings not rules covers it. At the table, regardless of how one wants to interpret Sage Advice or the PHB, if a player had a really good explanation for why they could carry out their bonus action while under the effects of Stinking Cloud, of course I'd say "yes". Or... "yes and... Dex save to not slip on the stuff that's on the floor!"

I feel the rules are clear on this and the sage advice only clarified. I think you are on the outside on this one - great name though

The rule on limiting bonus actions doesn't apply because you indeed are taking an action.

Swarmkeeper · Feb 1, 2019

dave2008 said:
I feel the rules are clear on this and the sage advice only clarified. I think you are the outside on this one - great name though

The rule on limiting bonus actions doesn't apply because you indeed are taking an action.

Likewise!

Yeah, I'm now convinced that free standing bonus actions are possible to invoke even when taking a "forced" action. But whether the bonus action works or not is case specific. I was conflating rulings and rules upthread.

Example:
Player: My PC would like to Misty Step out of the Stinking Cloud
DM: Ok, you use your bonus action to attempt to cast Misty Step... give me a CON check (DC 8 + however much you failed the initial CON check) to see if you can get the words out properly between the retches...

Something like that instead of saying "No, you can't use a bonus action b/c rules (that I've misinterpreted... sorry Sage advice)!"

This rule is gaining focus for me. Thanks [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6780961]Yunru[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6918769]BluejayJunior[/MENTION]!

Cheers

BluejayJunior · Feb 1, 2019

Glad to be of help!
I agree that certain bonus actions may not be possible due to the coughing/retching. Harder to cast spells, difficulty hiding, etc.

5ekyu · Feb 1, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Ah, I see why you find the Sage advice confusing. This spell does not "deprive you of you ability to take actions". It causes you to "spend your action retching and reeling". I.e. you still have an action, but you have no choice over what you do with it. It's a compulsory vomit action.

It's fairly clear if you look at the wording of the spell - specific beats general.

i said as much in my post - that spending an action retching is not the same as losing an action and so that is what it amounts to...

But, to me that seems off - allowing a healing word cast but not a firebolt or a cure wounds or allowing a cunning action dash but not a regular dash... etc etc.

As it stands its an odd spell that one might want to stand in... if say one has already weaponized your BA and are keeping concentration on another spell.

Gladius Legis · Feb 1, 2019

Oofta said:
With endless questions of what it means to take the attack action?

Shouldn't be any question. You took the Attack action as long as you already made one attack with your action (since, you know, you're committed at that point).

So Shield Master with this ruling works as many in that recent thread thought it should: Make the first attack of your action, but after that you can shove before making your other attack(s).

DQDesign · Feb 1, 2019

having a character especially resistant against one of the most iconic game spells just because she is a half-orc is totally silly, IMO.

Yunru · Feb 1, 2019

Gladius Legis said:
Shouldn't be any question. You took the Attack action as long as you already made one attack with your action (since, you know, you're committed at that point).

So Shield Master with this ruling works as many in that recent thread thought it should: Make the first attack of your action, but after that you can shove before making your other attack(s).

Actually, just declaring "I take the Attack action" still qualifies

Charlaquin · Feb 1, 2019

DQDesign said:
having a character especially resistant against one of the most iconic game spells just because she is a half-orc is totally silly, IMO.

No more resistant than they are against everything else that does damage.