why no Warforged

Unfortunately, the current trend with 5e adventures is that all roads lead to Faerun. This means that any adventure that involves any other plane will likely include a FR tie-in. That's why I surmised the BBEG Portal hypothesis. Another possibility could be to just do the same thing as what's going to happen in S4, and have characters from Faerun end up in Eberron*. People aren't complaining about CoS having Ravenloft intersect with Faerun, so the fan reaction to an intersection with Eberron could be received just as well.

I think that CoS is just the first testing ground for planes intersection in the 5e multiverse. They're simply starting with the one plane that could intersect with Faerun with the least amount of fan backlash. If it's as successful as the hype train is making it out to be, then which would be the next logical plane to cross paths with Faerun? Eberron, the place where magic is treated as a natural resource instead of a mystical force.

Put aside the sour tastes that 4e left in your mouth, and examine the idea with an objective perspective. All of the planes are already connected via the Astral Plane. We just need stories that show us where they connect in a manner that doesn't throw the whole multiverse out of sync. 5e is all about inclusion, so it's better to prepare ourselves for the inevitability that most of the major planes will make an appearance at some point in the 5e lifespan.

*As for how it could work within the AL setting, apply rules similar to those that will be implemented with the S4 adventures. Characters that are native to Eberron would have to play the Eberron adventures until they find an exit. Then such characters would be eligible to play in Faerun adventures. Such a ruling would limit the amount of time that Eberron races would have to enter Faerun. Once the Eberron season is retired, there would be no more new characters with that Story Origin entering the AL gene pool. We don't need a separate OP just for Eberron characters. It could work just fine with the AL we currently have. It just needs the right connecting pieces, which the Story Origin and S4 entry/exit mechanics would be just the right tools for the job.

The reason the fans aren't complaining about ravenloft is because it has established lore that the mists can enter any world. Toril and Eberron are on separate material planes. Not impossible to reach them (spelljammer and planescape established that fact) but far harder to do than ravenloft.

The issue being here is that Both Curse of Strahd hardcover and Curse of Strahd AL Scenarios both indicate that all characters come INTO Ravenloft. There wont be any native Ravenloft characters.

Above was stated : '5e is all about inclusion?' Is it? The most recent sourcebook has 2 class subtypes which are RESTRICTED to 2 race (perhaps 3 choices). 4e never had that. Sure 5e is inclusive, buts not all about inclusion.

Ravenloft itself also has some pecularities. a Good 80 percent of the population are Human. A Person can go their whole life without seeing a Halfling or Gnome or Dwarf. Hell if you are a Dragonborn or Warforged IN Ravenloft you are likely the circus freak because you are the only one. Orcs dont exist as a race in Ravenloft, thus no Half orcs. Im awaiting the stares all the half orcs are gonna get as they enter Barovia.

I know that there aren't going to be any RL natives in S4. This is the first time that they're trying out plane intersection in 5e. It makes perfect sense for the trial run to be a one-way street. Given the "Hardcover = AL Adventure" & "All Roads Lead Back to Faerun" mandates (the latter is evident by the DMsGuild rules) that don't seem to be going away ever, you want to take baby steps to make sure you abide by those standards; while still giving the fans access to the other planes that they hold dear. I would argue that this is the first season that has had AL taken into consideration while designing the hardcover adventure, as we got AL-specific rules announced as soon as CoS was.

As for the ecology of Ravenloft, there could have been some minor-yet-significant changes since the last time we saw the plane. For all we know, the Mists could have gone to Abeir to take advantage of the chaos created by the Sundering to recruit some of the chromatic Dragonborn to find a new Darklord. Remember that a 4e version of Ravenloft was scheduled for publication, but never released. That means that some work was probably done on it before its cancellation. I wouldn't be surprised to see some elements of that cancelled project find their way into CoS.

My statement about inclusion was more aimed at what WotC is trying to do with the fan base than at game mechanics. 4e fractured the fan base dramatically, thus 5e is trying to glue the two halves back together; while also picking up new fans along the way. I'm not too familiar with 4e (as I was in the half of the fan base that left) and the way things were developed, but I feel safe to assume that WotC's answer to all player requests was "Yes!" The horror stories that I hear about its OP are a testament to that. WotC learned from those mistakes and found a way to be about inclusion without screwing everything in the process. They changed their default response from "Yes!" to "Yes, but..." This meant that players would still get most of what they wanted, but WotC didn't give them everything that went against what worked pre-4e. If we shift our expectations to the "Yes, but..." setting, then we'll see the possibilities to reconnect the entire multiverse in a single edition without destroying what makes them separate and unique. 5e may very well be the edition where get to have our cake and eat it too.

All I'm trying to say is not to immediately dismiss the idea based on prior prejudice. There's evidence within the lore that travel between the different material planes is possible. All we need is a group of authors who can make it happen in a way that is palatable for the bulk of the community. There are always going to be naysayers who say that something is bad just based on a single component, but even they can be turned into proponents once the product is revealed.

If Michael Bay's TMNT 2 can cause a massive shift of support in the popular opinion after the craptastic first movie, anything is possible.

Has this post really gone this far with no one asking for warforged to become legal in 4E play?

Alphastream said:

Has this post really gone this far with no one asking for warforged to become legal in 4E play?

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I assume you meant 5e and not 4e, as 4e OP did have them as a legal race.

As for why the thread has stopped asking for Warforged as a legal race, it's simply because there is no official 5e Warforged yet. Once one exists, the questions will resume.

Instead, I've slightly turned the conversation to a related tangent: How are we likely to see Eberron be included in the 5e multiverse, and how can it be included into AL without the carte blanche seen in 4e LFR? As an innate Lore Bard who didn't dump Int, it's kind of what I do around here. I will usually stop myself when the tangent borders on thread derailment, but I find that asking relevant tangents tends to allow discussions to approach the original topic from a different perspective.

The primary assumption that I've based my posts around is that AL is going to be the only official OP campaign, and thus any published materials regarding the other planes will follow the "All Roads Lead to Faerun" mandate we've seen out of WotC handling the brand during 5e. With all books, games, and the upcoming film being tied to Faerun, it makes sense to believe that revisiting any other planes will likely follow suit.

I suspect that if Eberron is ever introduced, Eberron characters would be locked to the Eberron story origin (whatever that is called), and that those racial options and class options (eg. artificer) would be listed as Allowed Rules for that story origin.

Again, that sounds like a solution, but really isn't, as characters of any story origin can play in adventures from any storyline season; saying 'only characters with the Eberron story origin can be warforged' doesn't meaningfully restrict warforged in the campaign unless an additional rule that 'characters with the Eberron story origin can only play in Eberron storyline season adventures' is adopted. I'd say the likelihood of that rule is close to zero.

I'm with Tyranthraxus (and doesn't that seem weird to say after the Winter Fantasy Epic) -- the 'core setting' for D&D as a whole may be 'the multiverse', but that doesn't mean Organized Play has to use the 'core setting'. Let the Realms stay the Realms, and introduce other worlds as one-shot Game Day events that stay true to their own settings' lore and flavor.

Edit: I look at it this way -- if I were an Eberron fan, I'd rather have a short adventure where I get to use all of the tropes of the Eberron setting than trying to play an ongoing campaign with a character whose concept isn't really supported in the materials I have access to.

With that said, if you really want to play a plane-shifted Eberron character, a human or ghostwise halfling with the Far Traveler background works just fine without warping the balance of play.

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Pauper

kalani said:

I suspect that if Eberron is ever introduced, Eberron characters would be locked to the Eberron story origin (whatever that is called), and that those racial options and class options (eg. artificer) would be listed as Allowed Rules for that story origin.

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I wouldn't want it any other way. That way those who want to have their stable of Warforged and Artificers will have their opportunity to do so, while the detractors can take solace in knowing that the faucet will eventually be closed to prevent a complete overtaking of the AL gene pool. It would also encourage replayability by having similar exit requirements as S4 will have. A little homogeneity in how Eberron-native characters make their way into Faerun is a small price to pay to add a significant boost of heterogeneity to the AL gene pool.

Now the next two things I'm bringing up are not meant to be discussed further in this thread, but are thoughts that came to mind as a result of this discussion so far. I'll start the appropriate threads if others want to discuss them further. Let me know via PM.

1. Tyranthraxus mentioned how Half-Orcs may be perceived in Barovia. Imagine how a native of Athas would react to stepping into Eberron and vice-versa. Sometimes those Fish Out of Water situations can lead to memorable gameplay moments.

2. If WotC continues to create plane intersection stories, then perhaps Planescape/Spelljammer might make a return for the swansong season of 5e. I would imagine that the Allowed Rules for that season would see pretty much every major Story Origin come into play or have the longest entry for its Story Origin, having key components that are representative of each plane involved. PHB + (SCAG or EEPC or CoS splat or Eberron splat or Dark Sun splat or ...) + Planescape/Spelljammer backgrounds

Alphastream said:

Has this post really gone this far with no one asking for warforged to become legal in 4E play?

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That reminds me -- are warforged legal in LFR?

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Pauper