D&D 5E Lets Rank the 5e Skills!

Juriel · Jul 22, 2014

KarinsDad said:
The PC with perception might just search around and find the secret door behind the bookcase.

Why? How do sharp senses help him find that door, rather than deducing its presence?

This is why Perception is such a god stat, because every trap/ambush/clue uses it... Why even bother with Investigation, if you can just walk into a room and go 'ahhah! secret door, hidden journal, there and there'.

Ruin Explorer · Jul 22, 2014

KarinsDad said:
Now, I would sometimes allow investigation to be used to find something. For example, the PC with investigation sees that the carpet on the floor is messed up a little bit. He deduces that because of that, the bookcase next to the carpet is hiding something, possibly a hidden cache or a secret door.

The PC with perception might just search around and find the secret door behind the bookcase.

EDIT - THIS JUST: I CAN'T READ! PLS IGNORE!

But yeah, that's a good example.

KarinsDad · Jul 22, 2014

Juriel said:
Why? How do sharp senses help him find that door, rather than deducing its presence?

This is why Perception is such a god stat, because every trap/ambush/clue uses it... Why even bother with Investigation, if you can just walk into a room and go 'ahhah! secret door, hidden journal, there and there'.

This is a potential overlap issue. But, with two skills being in play, perception becomes weaker than in 4E.

I would not use perception to give out clues. For example, with perception, I might say "You find some tabac ashes on the window sill."

That's what the perceptive PC finds. The player himself has to make deductions about that.

The investigative PC might with the proper roll, expect to find clues on or near the window sill and look there first. Or, he might not spot them, but once they are brought to his attention by the perceptive PC, he deduces that the killer was leaning at the window in order to give a signal to someone outside.

This is a bit new for D&D, having separate perception and investigative skills (although there was some of this in Eberron IIRC).

One is saying what the PC observes, one is saying what the PC deduces from what he observes.

Emerikol · Jul 22, 2014

When it comes to traps and hidden doors, I'd allow perception but the DC would be really high. If they party actively searched the room, I'd use investigation and a lower DC.

lall · Jan 29, 2016

Stalker0 said:
Persuasion - B: THE social skill.

It can be useful in combat too. Yesterday, my bard used it to save a TPK. I could have used Perception instead and been this guy:

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/360430/captain-hindsight

FormerlyHemlock · Jan 29, 2016

Crothian said:
I'm surprised people rate Handling animals so low. Every campaign I've been it has PCs getting and using horses when they can and having mules to carry the treasure. Not knowing how to deal with the animals is not a pretty sight. PCs hate it when the mule carrying thousands in gold goes running off scared into the wilderness.

That's what Eldritch Blast is for. "Bad horsie!" *BOOM*

Shadowdweller00 · Jan 29, 2016

The problem with this sort of rating system is that skill use is very highly DM / Campaign dependent.

For example I would tend to say that for games I run Perception/Persuasion/Deception/Investigation are probably the most useful, followed by Stealth and the Knowledge skills. I make heavy use of knowledge skills to provide tidbits of background information about how my game worlds work. I include plenty of traps and other hidden items that you would only find with Investigation. I give some information about apparent demeanor from Insight, but I won't usually inform PCs outright that a given NPC is lying on a successful check, except in some extreme circumstances.

EDIT: Eh, I should pay more attention to thread dates.

Horwath · Jan 29, 2016

Acrobatics - C
Animal Handling - D
Arcana - C
Athletics - C
Deception - C
History - C
Insight - A
Intimidation - C
Investigation - D
Medicine - C
Nature - D
Perception - A+
Performance - F
Persuasion - B
Religion - C
Sleight of Hand - D
Stealth - B, A+ if rogue lvl2
Survival - C, B if ranger, D on everyone else if there is outlander background in the party.

now,

Sleight of hand should be packed in with thieves tools and be called larceny or thievery.

Animal handling should be merged into survival.

Investigation should be deleted. Traps should be all on perception and solution to riddles should be on players themselves not on die rolls.

optional rule; synergy bonuses for being trained is a skill.
if you are trained in some skill, that skill could add +1 mod to some other skills. Think as that as cross-discipline training and education.

Acrobatics gives +1 to athletics,
Athletics gives +1 to acrobatics,
Deception gives +1 to insight, persuation and intimidation,
Insight gives +1 to deception and persuation,
Nature gives +1 to survival and medicine,
Arcana gives +1 to thievery for magic traps,
Survival give +1 to medicine,
Arcana, history, nature and religion give other "knowledge skills" +1. So if you have all 4 trained you get extra +3 to all.

Salamandyr · Jan 29, 2016

Oldtimer said:
I'm afraid not. These things are listed under the subheading "Other Strength Checks", not under the subheading "Athletics". Not all ability checks are related to a skill in 5E.

Mistwell said:
Ah, you are correct, I misread that. My bad, and I apologize. Should have read it more carefully.

This right here has been a blind spot for WOTC game designers going back to 3rd edition--leaving ability checks around that have no way to improve them, and then not providing any direction that DC's for ability checks where one can't apply a skill or proficiency bonus need to be lower to compensate.

Athletics should absolutely apply to those checks, and in any game I run, they do.

LightningArrow · Feb 10, 2016

Rating skills should always be related to a specific campaign or setting, otherwise it's moot.

When you're playing in a pirate campaign, for instance, Athletics becomes by far the most important skill because it covers swimming, something that's rarely (if ever) used in dungeon settings. Similarly, Insight is priceless when meeting and greeting in a tavern, but useless in the wilderness. I could go on but I believe you get the point.