Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!

Maxperson · Jun 17, 2019

Charlaquin said:
Of course, by my standard, CN means someone who lives outside of society (whether literally in the wilderness or as a vagrant in civilized settlements) rather than sacrifice their individual liberties, and neither puts themselves in harm's way to benefit others, nor brings harm to others for their own benefit. I guess an example of a fictional character who fits that bill might be like... Tom Bombadil?

Tom is the epitome of the original true neutral druid. He wasn't chaotic at all. He just didn't care about things like law, chaos, good and evil.

Maxperson · Jun 17, 2019

Lanefan said:
Perhaps, though one definition of a true CN is a (non-destructive/violent) extreme anarchist who in fact does actively seek to overturn any and all external laws and restrictions, to be replaced with personal responsibility for one's actions.

A CG one sure would; a CN might stretch the definition of 'harm' just a little particularly when it comes to property - assuming, of course, the CN even believes in the concept of property/goods ownership at all. (some hardcore anarchists see ownership as the root of all evil)

Such an individual would die fairly quickly in a D&D setting, as it's literally him against the world. Even here in the U.S. it generally doesn't work out well for them, we had the Unibomber, but most of the "Anarchists" don't actually do anything but complain, since they don't want to die or be jailed.

Hussar · Jun 17, 2019

Oofta said:
And other people keep saying that reliability has little to do with alignment. Not reporting that there is an orcish invasion coming is not chaotic, it's stupid. There are stupid people or lazy people that fall asleep on watch of all alignments. On the other hand if you say a CN may not report a crime they're witnessing I'll agree 100%. They may or may not based on a host of other circumstances that are far too complex to put under a simple alignment system which only tell you a fraction of how a person is going to respond.

Alignments don't define what people do, it helps define why they do it.

I would argue that alignment is more descriptive. You are X alignment because of what you do.

Maxperson · Jun 17, 2019

Hussar said:
I would argue that alignment is more descriptive. You are X alignment because of what you do.

What you do is based on your personality and what you believe, though. There are many, many reasons why someone would not report an orcish army, and you can find people of all alignments among them.

5ekyu · Jun 17, 2019

Hussar said:
But, again, that scout has to report to someone. You just said that they never rely on authority - so, that scout goes off, scouts, finds information, and then keeps it to himself because, well, what's the point of telling those incompetent idiots, they won't actually do anything about it?

Remember, this person places no value on the well being of others. That scout could not care less that his companions get butchered except that it places him in danger. So, the scout goes out, sees something really dangerous, and decides that discretion is the better part of valor and buggers off without telling anyone.

Why? Because he does not value loyalty and only values his own skin.

I'm actually a bit surprised by the vigour in which folks are defending chaotics. Chaotics are, by definition, unreliable. A CN is CN BECAUSE he's unreliable.

Again, extremism. Never relies on authority does not mean working as scout and not reporting info back. It doesnt mean nuts. It foesnt mesn crazy. It doesnt mean never dealing with others, it means getting paid up ftont not being surprised if they screw it up. It's a belief not a compulsion.

And where do you get that this person places no value on the well being of others ? Again, for CN that serms extreme. "unconcerned with the value of sentient life" is the description the PHB places on Artemis, the LE character. As a neutral in the good/evil a charscter is perfectly free to be a bit of both - not strongly driven either wsy. So, this character could be one who does value many folks lives but maybe not do worried about the bosses who get whats coming to them.

As for defending cn, honestly, I am more opposing the insistence on extremism for alignments and it keeps getting thrown out then denied so much, it's well past raising my suspicions.

I think I can say that, speaking generously, you and I will just not agree here.

5ekyu · Jun 17, 2019

If I were going to describe a CN ftom fiction, Phillipe the Mouse from Ladyhawke. Willing to steal from anybody, distrusts mostly everybody but not the type to just kill for fun.

Jayne from Firefly, likely, especially when the money gets good.

Zardnaar · Jun 17, 2019

CN Han Solo start of ANH.

Oofta · Jun 17, 2019

Well, since this has devolved into a discussion of "what is alignment" I guess someone should post what alignment Batman is. Obviously he's the epitome of lawful chaotic good neutral evil.

View attachment 107105

Jay Verkuilen · Jun 17, 2019

5ekyu said:
Honestly, I recall very similar alignment "discussion" in 1e so as far as I can tell, alignment has led to the same pointless disagreements over the same pointless positions nd strawmen since it came out.

Only real difference us thst now it doesnt actually have mechanical penalties hanging on the outcomes.

I think that's been true from way back.

Dorm room style argumentation aside, IMO the real problem spots tend to be the conflicted alignments like Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, and Lawful Evil, where there's inherent tension between the adjectives. Part of it, I think is that there's an implicit notion that many people have that "Lawful" is also "good", hence "Lawful Good" is the best good. This leads to folks looking at various dilemmas that seem like they should be very difficult for particular alignments due to conflict between the first and second term. You could see 4E trying to nuke this whole debate by eliminating Lawful Neutral, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good, and Chaotic Neutral.

Oddly, Chaotic Evil's pretty simple---maximum mayhem and destruction. Of course, not that many people play Chaotic Evil, at least on paper, though there are plenty who do in reality (cue "murder hobos").