D&D 5E Vorpal weapon

HawaiiSteveO · Apr 5, 2019

"The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head."

So, not unconscious & making death saves, but DEAD? That's the way I read it, and makes sense considering what just happened. A headless PC / NPC / monster can't be unconscious.

This would be a case of specific beating general (?), and it's possible the target could have hit points and still be dead? Or headless = zero HP?

Cure wounds, revivify, heal all won't work, but resurrection would although head isn't missing (it's right over there!)?

Immortal Sun · Apr 5, 2019

Go straight to dead, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Dead.

Since you mention Death Saves, I assume you're talking 5e? Resurrection doesn't actually require the head. 3E doesn't require the head either, and specifies you only need a "small portion of the body at time of death".

Dausuul · Apr 5, 2019

Just a favor - could you tag this thread "5E" to clarify the edition? Our forum overlords have decided on a grand edition crossover in what used to be the 5E forum, and it's kind of confusing right now.

HawaiiSteveO said:
"The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head."

So, not unconscious & making death saves, but DEAD?

Yup. It's kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. It is an ex-monster.

Though note that "if it can't survive without the lost head" is an important caveat. A hydra, for example, can lose a head and keep right on going. It might also be possible for a construct or undead creature to survive the loss of its head. There is no rule specifying exactly which creatures can survive decapitation; that's up to the DM to decide.

HawaiiSteveO said:
This would be a case of specific beating general (?), and it's possible the target could have hit points and still be dead? Or headless = zero HP?

Nothing says the target drops to 0 hit points; so, technically, it dies at positive hit points, and effects that trigger on reducing a creature to 0 hit points would not be triggered. However, I would probably house rule that being insta-killed counts as reducing to 0 hit points.

HawaiiSteveO said:
Cure wounds, revivify, heal all won't work, but resurrection would although head isn't missing (it's right over there!)?

For revivify and raise dead, you could read "missing body parts" in two ways. You could say that any severed/unattached body part is "missing," in which case a vorpal kill could not be undone by those spells; or you could say that a body part is only "missing" if it is not physically in contact with the rest of the body, in which case you could use revivify or raise dead as long as you retrieve the head and hold it in contact with the neck.

I would probably favor the latter approach, but I would see either one as a legit interpretation that does not rise to the level of a house rule.

Vorpal is one of those things that is always going to require a fair bit of adjudication.

HawaiiSteveO · Apr 5, 2019

Yup, 5E.

My party of 7th level PCs is nigh-unstoppable, so one my upcoming BBEGs has this ability. With a little foreshadowing, this will throw a little fear into them...

Paul Farquhar · Apr 5, 2019

Dausuul said:
Nothing says the target drops to 0 hit points; so, technically, it dies at positive hit points, and effects that trigger on reducing a creature to 0 hit points would not be triggered. However, I would probably house rule that being insta-killed counts as reducing to 0 hit points.

The most likely situation where this would occur is with a wildshaped druid. Since they do not go through zero hp they die without reverting to their natural form.

It also means half orc Relentless Endurance doesn't trigger, which is what you would expect.

Mort · Apr 5, 2019

I'll agree with the above that, if you're being generous, revivify or raise dead might work - as long as all the head is present and reasonably intact. 5e certainly makes this a DMs call.

HawaiiSteveO said:
Yup, 5E.

My party of 7th level PCs is nigh-unstoppable, so one my upcoming BBEGs has this ability. With a little foreshadowing, this will throw a little fear into them...

1. Hopefully this is an ability not a weapon (or at least a weapon the party can use)! If it's a weapon that's just going to cause you a headache when the PCs start using it!

2. 7th level and nigh-unstoppable? That's not something you often hear, I'm very curious as to the makeup of this party.

Dausuul · Apr 5, 2019

Mort said:
Hopefully this is an ability not a weapon (or at least a weapon the party can use)! If it's a weapon that's just going to cause you a headache when the PCs start using it!

Agreed, although I would be more concerned about the +3 bonus than the vorpal effect. You can't control when decapitation triggers (since it only fires on a natural 20), and it doesn't work on legendary foes, which includes most of the really big boss monsters.

The +3 bonus, however, works on every attack, every round. Between the attack and damage bonus, it could easily mean more than a 50% boost to its wielder's damage output.

There's a reason they made vorpal weapons legendary.

HawaiiSteveO · Apr 5, 2019

Mort said:
I'll agree with the above that, if you're being generous, revivify or raise dead might work - as long as all the head is present and reasonably intact. 5e certainly makes this a DMs call.

1. Hopefully this is an ability not a weapon (or at least a weapon the party can use)! If it's a weapon that's just going to cause you a headache when the PCs start using it!

2. 7th level and nigh-unstoppable? That's not something you often hear, I'm very curious as to the makeup of this party.

Revivify - I would rule wouldn't work. Head is missing (from body). Sure someone could go grab it (gross!), but the actual body is still decapitated, and trying to duct tape it on with a 3rd level spell doesn't cut it - pun intended! Raise dead for the same reason, spell indicates specifically that it doesn't restore missing body parts.

I roll all the attacks in plain view of the players, so if I get a natural 20 they'll see it. It's a unique monster ability for a finale razor fiend. No left overs!

Five 7th level characters are pretty dang tough, not for my lack of trying! Much has been said of the whack-a-mole nature of 5E healing etc, no sense digging that up again here

!

Mort · Apr 5, 2019

Dausuul said:
Agreed, although I would be more concerned about the +3 bonus than the vorpal effect. You can't control when decapitation triggers (since it only fires on a natural 20), and it doesn't work on legendary foes, which includes most of the really big boss monsters.

The +3 bonus, however, works on every attack, every round. Between the attack and damage bonus, it could easily mean more than a 50% boost to its wielder's damage output.

There's a reason they made vorpal weapons legendary.

Yeah, bonus weapons and armor can prove a problem.

For my current group, I've decided I'm simply not making bonus weapons/armor available, at least not for the foreseeable future. Special materials and magic items are certainly around (heck the group just found a large cache of adamantine weapons and armor) they're just not bonused.

Nine Hands · Apr 5, 2019

That is correct, natural 20, baring any other circumstances = dead. My son's character in my campaign has a vorpal moonblade and it has saved the entire group many times but the big drawback is that you can kill someone even if you don't want to. This has happened at least once in the campaign.