Who Killed the Megaverse?

The popularity of Dungeons & Dragons has helped establish a baseline genre of fantasy that makes the game easily accessible to those familiar with its tropes. But in D&D's early days, the idea of mixing sci-fi and fantasy was built into the game.

The popularity of Dungeons & Dragons has helped establish a baseline genre of fantasy that makes the game easily accessible to those familiar with its tropes. But in D&D's early days, the idea of mixing sci-fi and fantasy was built into the game.

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​
D&D's Inspiration
Co-creator of D&D, Gary Gygax, was fond of pointing out that the inspiration for D&D was more inspired by R.E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian series than J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, but that does a disservice to the list of authors he identified in Appendix N of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide:
The most immediate influences upon AD&D were probably de Camp & Pratt, R. E. Howard, Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, H. P. Lovecraft, and A. Merritt; but all of the above authors, as well as many not listed, certainly helped to shape the form of the game.
de Camp's Lest Darkness Fallis an alternate history science fiction novel. Leiber's Fafhrd & Gray Mouser meet "a German man named Karl Treuherz of Hagenbeck who is looking for his spaceship, which he uses to cross the boundaries between different worlds in his hunt for animals for a zoo" in The Swords of Lankhmar. Vance's works are set in The Dying Earth, where "magic has loose links to the science of old, and advanced mathematics is treated like arcane lore." A. Merritt's Creep, Shadow! is a pulpy adventure featuring:
...a witch that murders people with her animated dolls. It’s got sketchy scientists, femme fatales, world travelling adventurer types, and even a hard boiled Depression-era Texan.
H.P. Lovecraft wrote more modern weird horror while R.E. Howard's Conan took place in a fantasy setting -- and yet the two borrowed themes from each other's works to blend into the Cthulhu Mythos we know today. Add all this up, and D&D was anything but "regular" fantasy. So how did we get here?
You've Got Martians in My D&D!
James Maliszewski explains at Black Gate:
However, I think it worth noting that, in his foreword of November 1, 1973, when Gary Gygax is explaining just what D&D is, he makes no mention of Tolkien. Instead, he references “Burroughs’ Martian adventures,” “Howard’s Conan saga,” “the de Camp & Pratt fantasies,” and “Fritz Leiber’s Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.” Most of the borrowings from Middle-earth occur in Volume 2 of the game, Monsters & Treasure, which only makes sense as many of Tolkien’s creatures are easily dropped into almost any fantasy setting. Of course, Gygax does something similar with Burroughs; D&D‘s wilderness encounter tables include tharks, Martians of every hue, apts, banths, thoats, white apes, and more. I think this makes it readily apparent that, far from being the pre-eminent inspiration of the game, Middle-earth is one of many and not necessarily the greatest one.
The other co-creator of D&D, Dave Arneson, demonstrated his proclivity for mixing sci-fi with fantasy in the Original D&D set, Supplement II, Blackmoor:
While this background provides no real details about the Blackmoor setting itself, it does explain that the high priest of the Temple of the Frog, an individual known as Stephen the Rock, is “an intelligent humanoid from another world/dimension.” Furthermore, Stephen possesses several mysterious devices, such as an anti-gravity unit and an interstellar communicator. I found this information intriguing. I was of course already familiar with Gary Gygax’s Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, as well as the “Mutants & Magic” section of the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, which provide guidelines for mixing science fiction and fantasy. But Supplement II was published in 1975, before any of this, which suggested to me that perhaps Arneson was perhaps the originator of this kind of “mixed genre” gaming.
There was the tantalizing possibility of D&D crossing genres, as evidenced by the Gamma World and Boot Hill crossover rules in the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. And of course, there was the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, itself inspired by Jim Ward's Gamma World.

But it was not to be. Gygax frequently defended D&D's inclusion of Tolkien-esque creatures as a necessary sop to the popularity of the genre, but as Maliszewski points out, D&D eventually became its own genre, helping strongly demarcate fantasy vs. science fiction:
Prior to the success of Dungeons & Dragons, fantasy was a very broad genre, encompassing everything from Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland to A Princess of Mars to Howard’s Conan stories and more. The earliest players and designers of fantasy roleplaying games understood and accepted this, but, as these games gained popularity and moved beyond their original audience, they became much more self-referential and self-contained – a genre unto themselves – rather than drawing on the anarchic literature that inspired them.
The onus would be on other RPGs to deliver on the promise of a truly cross-genre universe with Palladium's Rifts being the foremost example. D&D would follow suit with its Planescape and Spelljammer settings that attempted to encompass all the other D&D universes, but even those settings generally stuck to fantasy as a baseline.

New mixed-genre stories have since spun out of that baseline assumption, regularly mixing technology with fantasy in a way that was fresh to fans of the Thundarr the Barbarian cartoon. Thanks to the Internet, cross-pollination between genres is a natural outgrowth of so many ideas mixing together, and that's reflected in our own D&D campaigns where aliens or robots might make a surprise appearance. With the announcement by Goodman Games of the return of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, it looks like the megaverse still has some life in it yet.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

pemerton

Legend
We are a generation used to mix sci-fi and fantasy, not only in the superheroes comics but also some franchises as He-Man and the master of the Universe, what is like mixing Flash Gordon and Conan de barbarian.

But in the RPGs is different. The balance of power between superpowers, ranged and melee weapons is difficult, at least with the d20 system.
You make a good point, which is that by creating definitions of what "fits" in a game, it makes the game rules a little more balanced. As D&D's rules have become more codified, a side effect is that it reinforces the genre. Rifts, in contrast, doesn't worry too much about balance which allows cross-pollination of multiple genres.
This is all about d20. It's not very hard to have a mechanically balanced RPG that allows mixing genres. Cortex+ Heroic (derived from Marvel Heroic RP) and HeroQuest revised are too that come to mind; Fate might be able to handle this too, though I don't know it as well.

It is a spotlight issue. It is hard to justify the fighter when you have convenient and dependable high magic.
Yet Wolverine is as important to the X-Men as Storm or Jean or their Blackbird; and Storm beat Cyclops for leadership of the team when she had lost her powers and he still had an at-will laser cannon!

Again, this is all about system design, not whether or not genres, in principle, are amenable to being mixed in a RPG.
 

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Hussar

Legend
To be fair, if the D&D fighter was as powerful as Wolverine, I'd bitch about it a lot less. :D

Immortal, unkillable, super killer is not exactly a D20 fighter.
 

Reynard

Legend
To be fair, if the D&D fighter was as powerful as Wolverine, I'd bitch about it a lot less. :D

Immortal, unkillable, super killer is not exactly a D20 fighter.

Tangent -- Yeah, that's the barbarian.

Joking aside, they should have made the barbarian, ranger and paladin all archetypes of the fighter. -- End Tangent

As to Tolkienesque elements: yes they were originally included because players wanted them, and they became central features because the audience at large wanted them. The fans of Shannara are as responsible as anyone else for enshrining "traditional fantasy" elements in D&D.
 

Superheroes is maybe the best example d20 isn't ready to be universal. No, I don't forget there is a d20 superheroes, "Mutants and Masterminds" but this isn't the d20 we know or use. "M&M" isn't about leveling up until 20. In a d20 game the supersons (DC) could work in the same team, or Black Widow with captain Marvel. If Pepper Potts wears Rescue armor then she can do more things, how should be the XPs reward or the Changeling Rating? Worse, what if Hasbro wants a Transformers d20 RPG? and compatible with other d20 version of other titles (G.I.Joe, M.A.S.K, Rom the space knight, Visionaries or Power Rangers). We aren't talking about a April's fool.

A solution could be a different leveling up, with two branch. One of them as a miniature of videogame character, about level of power (damage, hit-points, defense..) and the other for storytelling effects (skills, known languages and studies, arts). I also have thought about two different leveling-up branches, one for shooting or ranged menaces, and other for the classic melee fight. This allow a good shooter but bad boxer or a martial artist with bad marksmanship.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
Oh, dahellwiddit. I'll flog this equine

Yeah, it's one of the internet's greatest hits.

But, good grief, Balor (originally named a Balrog!), color coded dragons,

Balor, yes, direct lift, but its role in the hierarchy of demons, most of the rest of which were made up by Gygax? Color coded dragons that have different breath types? No. Dragons laying on hordes of treasure is hardly unique to Tolkien, as well---it's in Beowulf, there's one in one of the Narnia books, and plenty of other mythology.

on and on and on. Heck the notion of the adventuring PARTY rather than a lone hero and maybe a sidekick, certainly isn't part and parcel of pulp action stories. The whole "ensemble cast" thing is a direct port from Tolkien.

There are other stories with a "party" element from around that time---Westerns and movies inspired by them like Kurosawa were very notable, but it's also in The Incompleat Enchanter---but interestingly enough this isn't how early D&D was played. There was a protagonist with hirelings.

Sure, no one is saying that Tolkien is the be all and end all of D&D.

...

It's probably easier to list the things D&D didn't lift from Tolkien, rather than the things they did.

Hmmm.... <scratches head>

No, it's really not. There are superficial parallels, but there are tons and tons more departures. Even the parallels often depart massively and many of the parallels as implemented draw more heavily on other sources, most notably Three Hearts and Three Lions and The Dying Earth. For instance, Three Hearts and Three Lions has... elves (as adversaries) and a dwarf (Hugi) in a party. It's the direct inspiration of the paladin and the troll. It might even have a half-elf in it, though I can't recall now. D&D elves have enormous points of departure from Tolkein's and they always have.


I mean, good grief, it took 4e to give us the first non-Tolkien core race and people actually bitched about it. THAT'S how ingrained Tolkien is in the game.

You keep saying "good grief" and repeating the same fairly superficial parallels as if that's an argument backed up by evidence.

I didn't say there was no influence---I said straight out, it was fan service to include elements that players had requested, for which TSR got threatened legal action---but folks seem to glom onto superficial resemblances without doing their homework and furthermore attribute it to Gygax lying to us about what his own personal influences are. I'm saying "take him at his word." Read the sources and you'll find that he was straight on this point. Appendix N isn't about what D&D fans wanted, but what Gygax said were his inspirations.

Saying D&D is predominantly influenced by Tolkien is like saying Led Zeppelin were predominantly influenced by The Beatles because both are quartets of English musicians who'd listened to '50s rock and roll. It's 100% the case that Led Zeppelin benefitted from the fact that the popularity of The Beatles really cracked open the lucrative American market for British music but the bands are otherwise very different.
 
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Reynard

Legend
Gnomes were in starting with 1e, and I don't recall anything like the D&D gnome in Tolkien.

It's important to recall that 1E was not in fact the first iteration of the game. Nor has anyone claimed Tolkien was the ONLY influence on early D&D, just that it is more palpable than Gygax liked to say. Gnomes were a "monster" race first and a PC race later.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
Tangent -- Yeah, that's the barbarian.

Joking aside, they should have made the barbarian, ranger and paladin all archetypes of the fighter. -- End Tangent

In 5E, yeah that would have been quite elegant. In 1E, ranger and paladin were fighter subclasses. If you failed as a paladin or ranger due to being unable to uphold the code, you got "demoted" to fighter.

As to Tolkienesque elements: yes they were originally included because players wanted them, and they became central features because the audience at large wanted them. The fans of Shannara are as responsible as anyone else for enshrining "traditional fantasy" elements in D&D.

I very much agree. When Gygax was writing D&D, the genre boundaries weren't nearly so hardened. Much of that came later.
 

the Jester

Legend
It's important to recall that 1E was not in fact the first iteration of the game. Nor has anyone claimed Tolkien was the ONLY influence on early D&D, just that it is more palpable than Gygax liked to say. Gnomes were a "monster" race first and a PC race later.

Sure, but I was specifically responding to the assertion that it took until 4e to get a non-Tolkien core race in the game.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
It's important to recall that 1E was not in fact the first iteration of the game. Nor has anyone claimed Tolkien was the ONLY influence on early D&D, just that it is more palpable than Gygax liked to say.

There are plenty of folks who claim, more or less, that Tolkien was the primary influence; indeed some have on this thread and it used to be even more common back in the day. In terms of market in the 1970s, 100%, that was truly one of the big drivers of the popularity of fantasy literature.

Gygax acknowledge such even in the 1970s. (Nor am I holding him up as a paragon of virtue. It's pretty clear he screwed Dave Arneson, for example.) Some of us claim that the influence on Gygax has been overstated and that it was largely due to the demands of the fan base that elements like halflings, treants, etc., were included. Many, many other elements are as prominent as the Tolkien-isms in D&D, all the way back. I used to doubt that, too, but when I read books from the list I was convinced otherwise. In fact, having a copy of the 1E DMG handy I looked at the text, but you can find the rest here. The concluding paragraph says:

The most immediate influences upon AD&D were probably de Camp & Pratt, REH [Howard], Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, HPL [Lovecraft], and A. Merritt, but all of the above authors, as well as many not listed, certainly helped to shape the form of the game. For this reason, and for the hours of reading enjoyment, I heartily recommend the works of these fine authors to you.

Having read many of the books on the list, and many of the articles Gygax cites as his primary interests, I believe him. For instance, with regards to Tolkien, he has The Hobbit in caps (indicating a stronger influence) compared to Lord of the Rings, which I think makes total sense. The tone and many of the devices in The Hobbit align quite a bit better with the feel of Ye Olde D&D.

One way to consider this is, if D&D really was driven by homage to Tolkien, why did TSR fail to ask for the license from the Tolkien estate and left it to the upstart no-names Iron Crown Enterprises?

Ultimately, though, folks have to make up their own minds, but I do hope it's not based on cherry picking the obvious JRRT-isms without reading The Dying Earth, Three Hearts and Three Lions, or Lankhmar to see what came from those---it was a lot, and these other authors and works really deserve to be remembered.
 
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