WotC Considering NPC Stat Format Change

Haffrung · Mar 11, 2019

EthanSental said:
I might have missed it if you mentioned it elsewhere, but got an example rpg game or publisher you mention above so I can see what you mean? I’ve mainly played D&D, pathfinder, some osr games and various superhero games back in the day and just curious of the easier content you mention by other companies.

Thanks!

Savage Worlds campaigns use a concise writing style with flexible approach (my experience is with the Savage Worlds of Solomon Kane).

Deep Carbon Observatory (an OSR adventure) uses a concise writing style and flowcharts.

Stonehell Dungeon and the Maze of the Blue Medusa are megadungeons where essential content is presented in single-page graphical format for each level or area.

For the most part, these are small companies with designers employing innovative layouts. WotC certainly has the expertise and the resources to integrate some of these innovations. But it's clear to me that they see that as hurting their market of non-playing readers. The reasoning seems to be that actual play users will make their own summaries, or download user-generated content from the internet, in order to make the games playable at the table. And this is preferable to readers not buying the books altogether.

EthanSental · Mar 11, 2019

Thanks! I have 1 savage worlds book for lankhmar but haven’t really read through it.

wcpfish · Mar 11, 2019

it's a thing...regretfully

Mercule said:
Wait... That's a thing?

I mean, I've bought adventures that I've never run, and that were still enjoyable to read, but I always read them with my "GM's eye", which means looking for the stat blocks, etc.

I can accept that there are folks that buy adventures with no intent of running (or looting) them, but I'd still expect them to care about the game mechanics stuff, at least enough to be able to follow along. Otherwise, my brain kinda hurts.

Yep it's a thing and this is (imho) the primary force driving this decision. Bryce at Tenfootpole.org talks about usability as a DM actually running the game VERSUS the joy of reading Tolkienesque descriptions of the history of each leaf in the forest. Apparently, the "I just bought it and read it and sought inspiration" buying forces are tilting to outweigh the "we're actually gonna play this thing" forces. I'd like a balance of the two and Bryce suggests how to do it. Give me bulleted points, handy one-line NPC motivations, and condensed stat blocks so I can run the adventure with minimal flipping and then if you want to explain why Farmer Jones owns exactly 131 chickens, used to be a thief 'til he took an arrow to the knee, and hates the color fuchsia--- do so in an appendix in the back.

wcpfish · Mar 11, 2019

one line vs three

MerricB said:
Works great for AD&D. You've got to love most of the creature's abilities triggering off Hit Dice. Alas, not a great option for 5E, where there's a lot more variance in abilities.

Ability scores that matter take up a lot of space, just to begin with - then there's lots of rider effects on attacks and the like. Even the damage type needs to be listed.

In theory, you could have an undead deal 1d8+4N, with the N standing for Necrotic, but we end up with too many abbreviations to remember.

Cheers!

fair point Merric and pleasantly and respectfully expressed thank you! But yeah, for 5th edition if the "one line" became "three lines" I'd still be okay with that. I think the key for me is looking down at the encounter and having the description of what the PCs see/experience first and foremost without digging for that AND having mechanics bullet pointed or bolded or whatever (even a simple indent) makes a world of difference. Cheers to you as well, good sir!

MerricB · Mar 11, 2019

wcpfish said:
But yeah, for 5th edition if the "one line" became "three lines" I'd still be okay with that.!

As an experiment, try converting the clay golem into a short statblock. It's one of those monsters that makes "three lines" look quite optimistic!

Incidentally, you might find this article interesting: https://merricb.com/2019/03/12/encounter-writing-introductory-paragraphs-and-room-descriptions/

Cheers!

jasper · Mar 12, 2019

MerricB said:
As an experiment, try converting the clay golem into a short statblock. It's one of those monsters that makes "three lines" look quite optimistic!

Incidentally, you might find this article interesting: https://merricb.com/2019/03/12/encounter-writing-introductory-paragraphs-and-room-descriptions/

Cheers!

Since every DM needs the MM to run. I can to do in one line.
Clay Golem AC 14 HP 133 XP 5,000 MM 168
Evil jasper, " I can do in 14 characters"
Clay Golem MM 168
Nice Jasper , " I do in one line and add flavor text"
Clay Golem MM 168 Looks lie Granny from Bevelry Hillbillies and uses a frying pan for damage.

S'mon · Mar 12, 2019

jasper said:
Since every DM needs the MM to run. I can to do in one line.
Clay Golem AC 14 HP 133 XP 5,000 MM 168
Evil jasper, " I can do in 14 characters"
Clay Golem MM 168
Nice Jasper , " I do in one line and add flavor text"
Clay Golem MM 168 Looks lie Granny from Bevelry Hillbillies and uses a frying pan for damage.

I find the most helpful stat to include in in-line stat block is the Dexterity bonus - then I can roll init and find the full stat block while players are rolling theirs!

Haffrung · Mar 12, 2019

Putting 5E monster stat blocks in the text of the adventure is a waste of space. 5E monsters are complex enough that you want to have the full stats available. Is it really a big deal to flip the MM during play? Or do you want 10-20 per cent of the content in a book you bought to be monster stats, many of them repeated over and over again?

Not including stats is also better for DMs who convert to other editions.

Bagpuss · Mar 12, 2019

IchneumonWasp said:
I welcome his change. NPC stat blocks take up a lot of space for stuff that aren't really necessary and can mostly be improvised on the spot, especially if there are some small guidelines about how strong the NPCs and whether he is more strong/intelligent/social etc. You don't need the entire statblock.

I would have thought writing things out in entire sentences is going to take up more space than a stat block. The whole point of the stat block was to reduce space needed to convey necessary information.

MerricB · Mar 12, 2019

Bagpuss said:
I would have thought writing things out in entire sentences is going to take up more space than a stat block. The whole point of the stat block was to reduce space needed to convey necessary information.

I think the idea is to improve readability of the NPC description, but I can’t say it achieves that for me.