Zak S
Guest
Well "patiently explain anyone reading out of", not"shout". It's typing. But yes.
Also find out if anyone who thinks that has some reason (valid or otherwise) heretofore not known to social science or game design
OSR What Has Caused the OSR Revival?
Well "patiently explain anyone reading out of", not"shout". It's typing. But yes.
Also find out if anyone who thinks that has some reason (valid or otherwise) heretofore not known to social science or game design
Tony Vargas
Legend
Are you trying to assert that fads and the comebacks thereof are unknown to social science? (I can see how they'd be considered trivial, perhaps, though they do make some money.) Or that nostalgia has absolutely no role in comebacks? (Also sounds implausible to me.)
Zak S
Guest
I think you're misunderstanding:
"
If you think people like the retroclone mechanics or products solely bc nostalgia:
That is wrong and we can have a conversation about that mistake.
If you think something else: that's not really something that I'm concerned with.
"
If someone is making the above mistake, than any responsible person should " find out if anyone who thinks that has some reason (valid or otherwise) heretofore not known to social science or game design" for making it.
You said you weren't making that claim or mistake so what I;m saying is unrelated to what you're saying.
Whatever reason people are drawn to the OSR at first, it is good because the rules work well and the new supplements and modules are the most fire stuff available.
Tony Vargas
Legend
Is the answer to the original question. Because that's what drives 'popularity,' people being drawn to it in the first place.
Good and popular are often entirely unrelated - when they are related, it can even be an inverse relationship.
'fire' stuff?
Zak S
Guest
Yes
In the case of the OSR, I don't know if it's related and do not care.
I do know the stuff is good and that many people use it because of that now.
"good"
Tony Vargas
Legend
I suppose we do have something in common.
I agree it's not relevant to the topic of popularity whether a given system is any good or not, let alone how they all rate in quality, collectively.
You have an opinion about how good the stuff is, and speculate that others sharing that opinion is /the/ reason people use it. Fine, as far as it goes. It doesn't go as far as providing any evidence anything is good or bad, and those kinds of in-depth discussions rarely lead to solid conclusions anyway.
Suffice to say you like it, thus its good, for you, and that's perfectly valid, and not something I'd want to disabuse you of, anyway.
OTOH, OSR games harken back and tie into an 80s fad, which could also go a ways towards explaining why people use them. Because returning players are nostalgic for the kind of game they remember from the fad years, sure, but also because it can be a point of pride for hard-core fans to value & talk-up the positive qualities they perceive in systems of that era vs 'new fangled' ones, and/or because new players are curious about the old games the new harken back to and/or want to be 'in the know' & accepted by the long-time & returning communities.
Can't say I ever heard that idiom before.
Zak S
Guest
"the main reason" they continue to use it.
I know as clearly as one possibly can that they use it for that reason.
They have lots of other options and know about them and in many cases they are cheaper. But instead they write letters and talk about how use the stuff is.
So barring a widespread conspiracy to create an imaginary scene by a bunch of Russian bots programmed to make the same kinds of comments about various OSR products in a variety of voices over a decade plus androids or clones sent to cons to stand in line and do the same and willingly repeatedly use games they don't enjoy while making elaborate arguments expressing opinions completely counter to their own desires for a decade, I am going to assume that peoples' reasons stated are their reasons until someone claiming they are lying or self-deceived can meet a burden of proof for those bold claims.
Your "possible" counter-theory--if its' a theory of why they continue-- requires people to spend their lives literally deceiving each other, meeting with friends for games they'd rather not play, spending money and making game critique and writing games and modules for games they don't really enjoy as much as alternatives--while others are available and a community willing to embrace them for liking these OTHER games is available-- all for the dubious pleasure of getting harassed online for enjoying OSR games.
It also requires they do it more and more every year for some reason--apparently sitting at their tables playing games they with they weren't more and more often solely to like look "osr" to each other or whatever. For dozens of hours.
Like nobody gets a prize toaster for liking OSR. And there are lots of other people who will give you big internet hugs for complaining about OSR or just playing another game.
Occam's razor suggests they enjoy the games they're playing and the reasons they give are their own. Nothing at all anywhere suggests otherwise, despite that fact that, yes epistemologically, anything is possible. We could all be brains in a jar.
Last edited:
Tony Vargas
Legend
That'd make sense if people came to games with the idea of finding good-quality mechanics. I rather doubt that's what most gamers are looking for. Instead, I suspect they're looking for an experience, of which the mechanics may or may not be a big part, and the quality of the mechanics may or may not influence, and may not deliver only by the obvious expedient of being 'good.'
In the case of D&D or OSR games harkening back to the early days of the hobby, that experience is probably either about re-capturing the feel of gaming in that era (which can be, perhaps unfairly, called 'nostalgia') or about exploring that feel for the first time (and there could be many reasons for wanting such an experience).
Zak S
Guest
Ah, you've just said "probably" which means you're actually saying that your idea about why people are dong what they do is more likely to be accurate than their self-report.
Which means they must be either lying or self-deceived.
1.Do you have any evidence of these bold claims about the contents of other folks' hearts and minds?
2. Have you ever played an OSR supplement or module?
3. Why do they not immediately hurl down popular OSRthings like Veins of the Earth (and other OSR products) in disgust, considering they make absolutely no appeal or attempt to appeal to nostalgia?
Similar Threads
