D&D 5E Why did they design Demiplane to suck?

cbwjm · Nov 19, 2017

I think the creation of a larger demiplane shaped as the caster desires is perfect for a high level ritual. I could see it being similar to the Netheril floating cities requiring the creation of something like a mythallar to power and hold together the magic that creates the demiplane. Perhaps different races/casters could create different items to ground the plane: an elven mage might have a great tree at the centre of the plane, a dwarf might have some kind of mystical forge, a fire genasi might have an everburning flame. Something like this sounds a lot more interesting than just casting a spell.

Paul MacArthur · Apr 11, 2019

Combine it with mass suggestion though, and have fun.

Cast Demiplane on wall and open door... Cast Mass Suggestion on angry mob.
"Suggest to angry mob that they hide in here where it's safe, before this turns into an all-out bloody battle."
Close door, and go enjoy a nice pint at the bar.

Dausuul · Apr 11, 2019

Kurotowa said:
So one demiplane is the Armory; a full compliment of mundane gear and specialized items. Need to outfit a dozen hirelings with arms and armor? Need two battering rams? Need 600' of rope? Open a door to the Armory and grab what you need. A 30x30x30 room puts any Bag of Holding to shame.

Another demiplane is the Guest Room; bed, chairs, rations, chamber pot, and some light reading material. Need to smuggle a squishy target past dangerous territory? Want to multiply the number of people a single-use gate or teleport will carry? Put them in the Guest Room, shut the door, and open it again once you've reached your destination.

A third would be the Workshop; sure, of course you've got an Arcane Laboratory at your home base, but sometimes you need access to one in the field too. Outfit the room with the sort of tools and ritual gear that don't fold up and transport well, and now you've got a mobile field lab.

Don't forget the Oubliette:

1. Get Repelling Blast.

2. While the BBEG is fighting your allies, cast demiplane on the wall of the BBEG's lair, and open the door as your free interaction.

3. Maneuver so the BBEG is between you and the door.

4. Fire off a volley of eldritch blasts.

5. Have an allied spellcaster cast dispel magic on the door using an 8th-level slot.

Note the lack of any place where Legendary Resistance could be used to shut this down. And it's remarkable how few monsters, even giant high-level legendary monsters like archdevils, have access to planar travel.

doctorbadwolf · Apr 11, 2019

Mephista said:
Okay, putting aside the fact that the game sorely needs stronghold / PC dungeon building guidelines beyond three spells that only druid, wizards and clerics get*, what exactly do you want a demiplane to do? Even at high levels, the game revolves around exploring and fighting monsters. You can't do that from your own tiny world. So, what does Demiplane offer as a spell that allows you to keep playing the game?

* the existence of these spells kind of annoy me.

Not verything needs to directly act to get you back out into the wilds or dungeons or whatever. For many of us, there’s a lot more to the game than that.

CapnZapp · Apr 12, 2019

gyor said:
In practice they should have called it Mordenkainen's Walk In Closet.

That change sounds like having minimal consequences. If it works for you, go for it.

Inchoroi · Apr 12, 2019

see said:
The obvious reason to have such a plain, standardized demiplane is that it avoids exploits while saving word count. Making a version that is simultaneously short, inexploitable, and flexible is pretty tricky.

The obvious explanation for created demiplanes that are more interesting is custom spells, whether to create more interesting ones or alter the boring ones. Which puts the DM in a position to allow/refuse permission for any given feature in advance, rather than being presented with a player exploit and having to ban a rules-as-written use of the spell.

This is probably what happened when they wrote it.

I would absolutely allow further castings to make it bigger, but it'd need to take time and money, probably. My player's wizard is pretty far behind the party, so he won't be getting access to that for a while.

77IM · Apr 12, 2019

They should have written the spell that way. Creating or expanding a demiplane would take "a diamond worth 10,000 gp" or something; merely opening a portal to an existing demiplane would be free. That way the DM can limit the supply of such diamonds to prevent excessive demiplane abuse.

Damon_Tor · Apr 13, 2019

gyor said:
You can't customize it all all beyond the walls being wood and stone.

You're a high-level wizard. You have spells like Stone Shape, Fabricate, Continual Flame, Guards and Wards and Programmed Illusion. I struggle to imagine what you could want to add to your demiplane that you cannot create yourself.

-Stone Shape allows you to grow the room larger than the 30/30/30 cube if you wish. Nowhere in the demiplane spell does it imply that the dimensions of the walls cannot be changed.
-Looping programmed illusions can simulate windows.
-Fabricate can make furniture, but also art and other decorative elements.
-Continual Flame allows you to light the place however you like (it seems by default it's entirely dark?). Combine with Fabricate to make lavish chandeliers or rustic wall sconces.
-Guards and Wards has multiple functions, including dancing lights to supplement your Continual Flames (these are smaller lights, better suited to simulate candles) but the real kicker is the permanent Gust of Wind, which you can use to generate mechanical force. This can get you things like running water.

77IM · Apr 13, 2019

Damon_Tor said:
Stone Shape allows you to grow the room larger than the 30/30/30 cube if you wish. Nowhere in the demiplane spell does it imply that the dimensions of the walls cannot be changed.

And yet for some reason many people think that the demiplane can't grow this way: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?657678-Demiplane-walls

I think the language is ambiguous: "When opened, the door leads to a demiplane that appears to be an empty room 30 feet in each dimension, made of wood or stone." Emphasis mine; the spell doesn't actually say what the demiplane is made of or even how big it is, only how it appears. That's a really weird way to phrase a spell.

MoonSong · Apr 13, 2019

Paul MacArthur said:
Combine it with mass suggestion though, and have fun.

Cast Demiplane on wall and open door... Cast Mass Suggestion on angry mob.
"Suggest to angry mob that they hide in here where it's safe, before this turns into an all-out bloody battle."
Close door, and go enjoy a nice pint at the bar.

Hello Paul. Welcome to Enworld.

D&D 5E Why did they design Demiplane to suck?

cbwjm

Seb-wejem

Paul MacArthur

First Post

Dausuul

Legend

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

CapnZapp

Legend

Inchoroi

Adventurer

77IM

Explorer!!!

Damon_Tor

First Post

77IM

Explorer!!!

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin

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