D&D General Gamer Stats From White Dwarf in the 80s

Sacrosanct · Jul 3, 2019

Uller said:
And Ellen Ripley is suiting up...

Well, he did say horror, and Alien(s) is part of that genre.

But for the most part, he's right. We do have a subset of our fandom that is outright toxic. Just look at video game discussions. It's flat out disgusting how there are so many guys who lose their minds if a woman is portrayed in any independent and/or heroic manner. These are guys who are used to be extremely misogynistic in game chats, and now that they are called out, are throwing fits. With reasoning that doesn't hold water.

"There were no women in WWI!" (Battlefield franchise)
"No woman can carry a man like that!" (the recent in game trailer for Ghost Recon Breakpoint)

Yeah, they have no problem with getting shot a million times and immediately getting back up again instantly, or carrying 100lbs of gear and running 30mph for a few miles, but a woman carrying a man is too unrealistic for them...

Paul Farquhar · Jul 3, 2019

Uller said:
And Ellen Ripley is suiting up...

Alien is a horror so Ripley doesn't circumvent the trope.

Paul Farquhar · Jul 3, 2019

Morrus said:
You are fundamentally misunderstanding the point.

My point is the absence of people of one gender from a hobby does not prove hostility from the other gender.

It doesn't prove the absence of hostility either. But it is human nature to try to look for simple explanations (especially when it means they can blame someone) when reality is always far more complex.

Sacrosanct · Jul 3, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
My point is the absence of people of one gender from a hobby does not prove hostility from the other gender.

It doesn't prove the absence of hostility either. But it is human nature to try to look for simple explanations (especially when it means they can blame someone) when reality is always far more complex.

I understand what you're getting at, I just don't think it matters in this context. Why? Well, sure absence of a gender doesn't mean it's due to hostility from the other gender, but in our hobby, which is what we're talking about, we have ample proof there is. So I couldn't really care less about what happens in knitting circles, or model train enthusiasts, or coin collector groups. I'm part of this hobby, so I very much want to address the toxic culture this hobby has.

Paul Farquhar · Jul 3, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
I understand what you're getting at, I just don't think it matters in this context. Why? Well, sure absence of a gender doesn't mean it's due to hostility from the other gender, but in our hobby, which is what we're talking about, we have ample proof there is. So I couldn't really care less about what happens in knitting circles, or model train enthusiasts, or coin collector groups. I'm part of this hobby, so I very much want to address the toxic culture this hobby has.

Perhaps to address the toxicity you need to understand how the hobby came to be male dominated in the first place.

We know that early on toxicity was not the issue. How do we know? Not because it didn't exist, but because in order to encounter toxicity a female would have to actually try and join (no internet in the 80s). And those of us males who where there have the same experience: no females ever tried to join in the first place. And there is little evidence for the spontaneous formation of all female groups. The barriers to entry occur much earlier. Toxicity is more a consequence of those initial barriers, not the cause.

As a Physics teacher, I am concerned about gender balance in Physics and Engineering, and it is very closely related. Whilst I have plenty of anecdotal evidence of toxicity in those subjects it's generally encountered by people who have already overcome those initial barriers.

Azzy · Jul 3, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
Mary Poppins is giving you side eye...

To be fair, Mary Poppins could be considered a horror movie. Just saying.

Uller · Jul 3, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Alien is a horror so Ripley doesn't circumvent the trope.

Ummm...so spaceships, interstellar travel and aliens is not sci-fi? mmkay....

Rotten tomatoes says otherwise. Alien and Aliens both crop up in the top 20 of their list of top 110 sci-fi movies. You'll forgive me for disagreeing, I hope. Art can transcend multiple genres. Art is talented like that.

Schmoe · Jul 3, 2019

Thinking back on my experience, I'm pretty sure that any girl who had expressed interest in gaming with my group might have felt awkwardness and maybe even unintended hostility. I was super-shy around girls and intimidated by them, and the thought of relaxing and opening up around a girl terrified me. Self-doubt and lack of confidence can certainly breed outward hostility, whether that's the intent or not. I see in my own son now how uncomfortable he is around girls of his own age, and I'm sure that's a somewhat normal feeling for a lot of adolescent boys. I don't think it's realistic to think that mixing adolescent boys and girls won't create "hostility" or discomfort in at least a large number of situations, just by the very nature of what it is to be an awkward adolescent. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but sometimes I think people underestimate just how uncomfortable young boys can be.

Azzy · Jul 4, 2019

Uller said:
Ummm...so spaceships, interstellar travel and aliens is not sci-fi? mmkay....

Doesn't make it not horror.

MGibster · Jul 4, 2019

Alien is both science fiction and horror. Fun fact: Ripley was originally written as a male character. And I don't mind including her on my list of women characters "geeks" didn't seem to have a problem with in the 70s and 80s. The sequel Aliens was an action movie rather than horror and I can't recall anyone having a big problem with Ripley in that one either.

D&D General Gamer Stats From White Dwarf in the 80s

Sacrosanct

Legend

Paul Farquhar

Legend

Paul Farquhar

Legend

Sacrosanct

Legend

Paul Farquhar

Legend

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ

Uller

Adventurer

Schmoe

Adventurer

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ

MGibster

Legend

Similar Threads

Related Articles