D&D 5E how would it hurt to take a diffrent class sub class

HardcoreDandDGirl · Oct 4, 2014

Ok, so it sounds weird, and a lot of subclasses don't work off the basic class. However I have some examples I would like some feed back on.

If I played a rogue, and instead of taking a rogue sub class took the fighter one with maneuvers. (Battle master maybe?) Could it work if I just took the 'next' ability when each roge one came up?

What about switching fighter and rogue spell casting sub classes Arcane trickster fighter and eldritch knight rogue?

now yes I know the basic answer is it's up to the DM... but what does the community in general see as the problem or thoughts?

doctorhook · Oct 4, 2014

HardcoreDandDGirl said:
Ok, so it sounds weird, and a lot of subclasses don't work off the basic class. However I have some examples I would like some feed back on.

If I played a rogue, and instead of taking a rogue sub class took the fighter one with maneuvers. (Battle master maybe?) Could it work if I just took the 'next' ability when each roge one came up?

What about switching fighter and rogue spell casting sub classes Arcane trickster fighter and eldritch knight rogue?

now yes I know the basic answer is it's up to the DM... but what does the community in general see as the problem or thoughts?

I don't think it'd work, mainly because many subclass feature build from the features of the base class. The classes you cited (fighter and rogue) might be the easiest ones to do what you're suggesting, but even then, your features wouldn't come at the same levels as usual.

I think trying to make this suggestion work would require a ton of work and risk creating some seriously broken combos.

HardcoreDandDGirl · Oct 4, 2014

[MENTION=58401]doctorhook[/MENTION] I was afraid that was going to be the answer... anyone else??

Redthistle · Oct 4, 2014

An intriguing question, and one I had not thought about. I'm subscribing to this thread so that I can get back to it after I've put some time into creating some PCs using this idea, although doctorhook's reply may well be an accurate assessment.

Quickleaf · Oct 4, 2014

[MENTION=82746]HardcoreDandDGirl[/MENTION] My first thought is that some classes (e.g. Clerics, sorcerers, warlocks) don't have sub-classes in the same way other classes do, that sub-class features sometimes build off of core class features, that level advancement occurs differently and thus interchanging sub-classes will involve unequal power exchange and a certain amount of fudging.

It's true the Rogue and Fighter sub-classes are more interchangeable than most other classes...

Fighter (Battle Master)
3: Combat Superiority, Student of War
7: Know Your Enemy
10: Improved Combat Superiority
15: Relentless

Rogue (Thief)
3: Fast Hands (requires rogue's cunning action), Second Story Work
9: Supreme Sneak
13: Use Magic Device
17: Thief's Reflexes

However, a Rogue taking a martial archetype gains a distinct combat power boost and gains their sub-class features sooner, whereas a Fighter taking a roguish archetype needs the DM to fudge the cunning action requirement of Fast Hands and gains their sub-class features later. My hunch is the change will be noticeable but not terribly unbalancing, and if your DM is down I say go for it!

Sadrik · Oct 4, 2014

HardcoreDandDGirl said:
Ok, so it sounds weird, and a lot of subclasses don't work off the basic class. However I have some examples I would like some feed back on.

If I played a rogue, and instead of taking a rogue sub class took the fighter one with maneuvers. (Battle master maybe?) Could it work if I just took the 'next' ability when each roge one came up?

This really depends on your DM. But if I was your DM and you came with an idea like that I would encourage it. As to the power level shifting. I don't think the shift is all that much in any one direction. It should be fine.Your character will be more front-line and be asked to pull more weight due to your better combat focus. But you will lose some versatility and out of combat features that make the rogue so cool. I think the trade off is fine.

HardcoreDandDGirl said:
What about switching fighter and rogue spell casting sub classes Arcane trickster fighter and eldritch knight rogue?

Again up to the DM but I see no issue. I might even say just pick two schools of magic why limit them to specific schools? I think those are excellent suggested schools but by no means should a player be limited to them (IMO). You want a rogue with illusion and necromancy. Go for it.

Side note it looks like the there is a typo and the eldritch knight has one less cantrip... Strange.

Li Shenron · Oct 4, 2014

HardcoreDandDGirl said:
Ok, so it sounds weird, and a lot of subclasses don't work off the basic class. However I have some examples I would like some feed back on.

If I played a rogue, and instead of taking a rogue sub class took the fighter one with maneuvers. (Battle master maybe?) Could it work if I just took the 'next' ability when each roge one came up?

What about switching fighter and rogue spell casting sub classes Arcane trickster fighter and eldritch knight rogue?

now yes I know the basic answer is it's up to the DM... but what does the community in general see as the problem or thoughts?

It's not that weird, it was discussed about 2 years ago or as soon as the concepts and purposes of subclasses were revealed during the playtest.

Officially, the DMG is going to provide some guidelines about mix'n'matching different subclasses of the same class, under DM's permission of course.

I actually don't expect those guidelines to cover or suggest to do the same between different classes' subclasses, but that's just a safety precaution.

Really, the matter completely depends on the specific cases. Some subclasses enhance existing features of their class, therefore it may be hard or even impossible to port them to another class without changing some features. But in other cases, it clearly works. You just have to check the subclass features one-by-one against the new class.

Eventually, when it doesn't work on a feature or two but it works on the others, just also mix'n'match the subclass with another one.

Hrothgar Rannúlfr · Oct 4, 2014

HardcoreDandDGirl said:
Ok, so it sounds weird, and a lot of subclasses don't work off the basic class. However I have some examples I would like some feed back on.

If I played a rogue, and instead of taking a rogue sub class took the fighter one with maneuvers. (Battle master maybe?) Could it work if I just took the 'next' ability when each roge one came up?

What about switching fighter and rogue spell casting sub classes Arcane trickster fighter and eldritch knight rogue?

now yes I know the basic answer is it's up to the DM... but what does the community in general see as the problem or thoughts?

I like this idea.

I think it could work, if approached carefully.

Might be better to design a new archetype for the class in question that borrows from the archetype of the other class. But, might not actually be better in practice. Don't know.

Or, design a new 'hybrid' class with room for new archetypes similar to both classes. Though, this would likely be a lot more work.

Greg K · Oct 4, 2014

Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
Or, design a new 'hybrid' class with room for new archetypes similar to both classes. Though, this would likely be a lot more work.

This would be my own preference. There are a handful of hybrid classes that I want and this is one of them.

Mouseferatu · Oct 4, 2014

I thought about doing this myself, when we switched to 5E a while ago. Specifically, I was trying to figure out some way for the druid in my group to take the ranger's beastmaster subclass. As it happened, he didn't go that route when converting his character to the new edition, so I never had to work it through and figure out how to balance it/make it work. But I agree it's definitely a fascinating thought, and I hope the DMG touches on it at least a bit.

D&D 5E how would it hurt to take a diffrent class sub class

HardcoreDandDGirl

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doctorhook

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HardcoreDandDGirl

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Redthistle

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Quickleaf

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Sadrik

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Li Shenron

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Greg K

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