Sword of Spirit
Legend
Hi all! I took some time to think through the class more. I'd like to provide a simplified comparison for ease of analysis. I'd be particularly interested in commentary from those who have looked at the original proposal, including [MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION], [MENTION=6787650]Hemlock[/MENTION], [MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION], [MENTION=6788732]cbwjm[/MENTION], [MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION], as well as anyone else who likes to look at these sorts of things.
I'm going to take as a baseline for balance the wizard's Bladesong Tradition, since the designers felt it was more or less balanced. My class needs to be comparable in overall balance to Bladesinger.
My table will present a simple comparison of essential features level by level, for a skeletal baseline, that should be no more powerful than Bladesinger. Then I'll provide a list of features that can be added, and it would help me greatly if I could get people to basically "say when" when the class hits the point where it is overpowered compared to Bladesinger.
Except for what is spelled out on this table and intro, assume that this class's features and stats are identical to a Bladesinger. Ie, you are taking away the stuff in the Bladesinger columns, and adding in the stuff in the Warrior Mage columns. I made an exception by noting where they both gained Extra Attack. You can more or less forget the first post on this thread at the moment—just look at this chart.
Ability Scores. I'm assuming both characters are half-elves with starting ability scores of Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10, and alternate increasing Dex and Int, Dex first. Their final ability score improvement goes to Con.
Weapons and Armor. Each character wields a rapier (Bladesinger uses a dagger at level 1) and open hand. I start them with the best armor they can likely afford, and upgrade Warrior-Mage to half-plate at level 3. They use green-flame blade where it will improve their damage.
Melee DPR. This is the difference between the Warrior-Mage's at-will melee damage and the Bladesinger's.
Note that The Bladesinger will be using bladesong for most combats, granting them the improved concentration save and AC in parentheses, in addition to its other benefits.
Variants: You could change the Warrior-Mage to Strength-based and gain additional damage at the cost of AC. You could also use a shield for a +2 AC boost, but that might interfere with your spellcasting (same issues the Valor bard has with their weapon/armor proficiencies).
Does this baseline Warrior-Mage seem overpowered compared to the Bladesinger? Unless I'm a blind idiot, I'm going to assume most of you will say "no".
Damage Improvements
With Warrior-Mage lagging behind at levels 14-20, and based on the assumption that they are intended to be superior to Bladesinger in putting out at-will melee damage (while Bladesinger is superior at spell casting), something should be done to fix that. Here are some possibilities to consider.
1) War Magic (with or without a third attack)
If we give the Warrior-Mage War Magic at 8th level, this is how the column for their melee damage compared to bladesinger will look.
Level 1-7.........Same as above table
Level 8-10.......+8
Level 11-13.....+13
Level 14-15.....+5
Level 16.........+3
Level 17-20.....+7
(Why do tabs not work on this forum?
)
This is a big boost at levels 11-13, keeping them more effective in melee. At levels 14+ it just puts Warrior-Mage back ahead of Bladesinger, countering the Song of Victory improvement—a desirable outcome.
If Warrior-Mage gets both War Magic and Extra Attack at levels 18 or 20, the third attack would not affect their damage on the chart. Even if they wielded a greatsword (with the appropriate fighting style), the increase in their damage per round would be less than half a point compared to using War Magic.
2) Extra Attack (third attack)
Without War Magic, getting a third attack at levels 18 or 20 would change their damage compared to Bladesinger at those levels to +5. They would still be behind Bladesinger at levels 14-17.
A smooth progression would follow (+3 to +7 damage for Warrior-Mage) at levels 14+ from giving Warrior-Mage either a third attack, War-Magic, or both at level 14. That would seem to be the most mathematically desirable option when comparing to Bladesinger (see issues below).
The Extras
As you can see, Bladesinger still has a lot going for them in the useful features department, mostly from the wizard class itself rather than from their subclass. We should give Warrior-Mage a little something so they don't feel bland. These extras aren't really there to add raw power, but rather to expand features. We could add any or all of the following.
3) Spell Mastery
Level 20 spell mastery makes a great capstone feature. It won't see much play, but it helps you feel cool when you get there.
4) Improved War Magic
Eldritch Knight gets this at 18th level, while Valor Bard gets it at 14th level. Either one of these works. If balance isn't really an issue, I favor 14th level because doing both magic and melee is kind of their thing.
5) Indomitable Spirit (described in OP)
This one is concept preservation as much as anything. As a blend of warrior and mage, it would be nice if they had a bit more mental fortitude than a warrior, and weren't as much of a rag doll as a wizard. At the same point, an extra save would be way too much. This is a possible solution. A nerfed and limited version of Indomitable addressing only the saves that a fighter or wizard would get that the warrior-mage doesn't. It could easily be split up to hand out only one at a time (Wisdom at about 10th level, then Strength at some higher level), though delaying it too far (to 20th, for instance) would feel off.
6) Arcane Specialization (described in OP)
This one is a personal favorite of mine. I really want to allow things like minor conjuration, minor alchemy, or improved minor illusion. It is supposed to be an occasionally useful toy, not a major power bump. To attempt to address the fact that some traditions simply give more combat relevant abilities, I'm going to propose significantly nerfed versions of most of them.
Arcane Ward: The ward has your level + your Intelligence mod hit point, and you regain the level of the abjuration spell cast. (Instead of twice your level and twice the spell level.)
Portent: You gain only one fortelling die. (Instead of two.)
Hypnotic Gaze: You can maintain this effect on a creature for no longer than 5 rounds.
Sculpt Spells: You can affect only 1 creature.
Grim Harvest: You regain hit points equal to the spell's level, but only if it’s a necromancy spell. (I'm still iffy on this one.)
I like granting it at 6th level because it showcases their wizardly training, in the same way that fighting style showcases their fighter training.
Issues and Resolving Them
The issue with delaying War Magic to level 14 is that they don't feel quite strong enough as a warrior that way. They shouldn't be outclassing the dedicated warrior classes, but they need to be making more than a token effort at damage output, which is basically what the Valor Bard is doing. In fact, by level 15, the Valor Bard can have all the essential melee battle elements that the Warrior-Mage has at that level, except for a fighting style, and they get all the other bardic goodies to go along with that. It's a delicate balance here, most definitely, but I'd like to get them War Magic at level 8 if at all possible.
Reducing Second Wind to once per long rest was an easy sacrifice to weaken the baseline a bit, and those are the sorts of things that work well with the concept.
What Say Ye?
Anyone willing to play the "say when" game with me?
I'm going to take as a baseline for balance the wizard's Bladesong Tradition, since the designers felt it was more or less balanced. My class needs to be comparable in overall balance to Bladesinger.
My table will present a simple comparison of essential features level by level, for a skeletal baseline, that should be no more powerful than Bladesinger. Then I'll provide a list of features that can be added, and it would help me greatly if I could get people to basically "say when" when the class hits the point where it is overpowered compared to Bladesinger.
Except for what is spelled out on this table and intro, assume that this class's features and stats are identical to a Bladesinger. Ie, you are taking away the stuff in the Bladesinger columns, and adding in the stuff in the Warrior Mage columns. I made an exception by noting where they both gained Extra Attack. You can more or less forget the first post on this thread at the moment—just look at this chart.
Ability Scores. I'm assuming both characters are half-elves with starting ability scores of Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10, and alternate increasing Dex and Int, Dex first. Their final ability score improvement goes to Con.
Weapons and Armor. Each character wields a rapier (Bladesinger uses a dagger at level 1) and open hand. I start them with the best armor they can likely afford, and upgrade Warrior-Mage to half-plate at level 3. They use green-flame blade where it will improve their damage.
Melee DPR. This is the difference between the Warrior-Mage's at-will melee damage and the Bladesinger's.
Note that The Bladesinger will be using bladesong for most combats, granting them the improved concentration save and AC in parentheses, in addition to its other benefits.
Variants: You could change the Warrior-Mage to Strength-based and gain additional damage at the cost of AC. You could also use a shield for a +2 AC boost, but that might interfere with your spellcasting (same issues the Valor bard has with their weapon/armor proficiencies).
Does this baseline Warrior-Mage seem overpowered compared to the Bladesinger? Unless I'm a blind idiot, I'm going to assume most of you will say "no".
Damage Improvements
With Warrior-Mage lagging behind at levels 14-20, and based on the assumption that they are intended to be superior to Bladesinger in putting out at-will melee damage (while Bladesinger is superior at spell casting), something should be done to fix that. Here are some possibilities to consider.
1) War Magic (with or without a third attack)
If we give the Warrior-Mage War Magic at 8th level, this is how the column for their melee damage compared to bladesinger will look.
Level 1-7.........Same as above table
Level 8-10.......+8
Level 11-13.....+13
Level 14-15.....+5
Level 16.........+3
Level 17-20.....+7
(Why do tabs not work on this forum?
)This is a big boost at levels 11-13, keeping them more effective in melee. At levels 14+ it just puts Warrior-Mage back ahead of Bladesinger, countering the Song of Victory improvement—a desirable outcome.
If Warrior-Mage gets both War Magic and Extra Attack at levels 18 or 20, the third attack would not affect their damage on the chart. Even if they wielded a greatsword (with the appropriate fighting style), the increase in their damage per round would be less than half a point compared to using War Magic.
2) Extra Attack (third attack)
Without War Magic, getting a third attack at levels 18 or 20 would change their damage compared to Bladesinger at those levels to +5. They would still be behind Bladesinger at levels 14-17.
A smooth progression would follow (+3 to +7 damage for Warrior-Mage) at levels 14+ from giving Warrior-Mage either a third attack, War-Magic, or both at level 14. That would seem to be the most mathematically desirable option when comparing to Bladesinger (see issues below).
The Extras
As you can see, Bladesinger still has a lot going for them in the useful features department, mostly from the wizard class itself rather than from their subclass. We should give Warrior-Mage a little something so they don't feel bland. These extras aren't really there to add raw power, but rather to expand features. We could add any or all of the following.
3) Spell Mastery
Level 20 spell mastery makes a great capstone feature. It won't see much play, but it helps you feel cool when you get there.
4) Improved War Magic
Eldritch Knight gets this at 18th level, while Valor Bard gets it at 14th level. Either one of these works. If balance isn't really an issue, I favor 14th level because doing both magic and melee is kind of their thing.
5) Indomitable Spirit (described in OP)
This one is concept preservation as much as anything. As a blend of warrior and mage, it would be nice if they had a bit more mental fortitude than a warrior, and weren't as much of a rag doll as a wizard. At the same point, an extra save would be way too much. This is a possible solution. A nerfed and limited version of Indomitable addressing only the saves that a fighter or wizard would get that the warrior-mage doesn't. It could easily be split up to hand out only one at a time (Wisdom at about 10th level, then Strength at some higher level), though delaying it too far (to 20th, for instance) would feel off.
6) Arcane Specialization (described in OP)
This one is a personal favorite of mine. I really want to allow things like minor conjuration, minor alchemy, or improved minor illusion. It is supposed to be an occasionally useful toy, not a major power bump. To attempt to address the fact that some traditions simply give more combat relevant abilities, I'm going to propose significantly nerfed versions of most of them.
Arcane Ward: The ward has your level + your Intelligence mod hit point, and you regain the level of the abjuration spell cast. (Instead of twice your level and twice the spell level.)
Portent: You gain only one fortelling die. (Instead of two.)
Hypnotic Gaze: You can maintain this effect on a creature for no longer than 5 rounds.
Sculpt Spells: You can affect only 1 creature.
Grim Harvest: You regain hit points equal to the spell's level, but only if it’s a necromancy spell. (I'm still iffy on this one.)
I like granting it at 6th level because it showcases their wizardly training, in the same way that fighting style showcases their fighter training.
Issues and Resolving Them
The issue with delaying War Magic to level 14 is that they don't feel quite strong enough as a warrior that way. They shouldn't be outclassing the dedicated warrior classes, but they need to be making more than a token effort at damage output, which is basically what the Valor Bard is doing. In fact, by level 15, the Valor Bard can have all the essential melee battle elements that the Warrior-Mage has at that level, except for a fighting style, and they get all the other bardic goodies to go along with that. It's a delicate balance here, most definitely, but I'd like to get them War Magic at level 8 if at all possible.
Reducing Second Wind to once per long rest was an easy sacrifice to weaken the baseline a bit, and those are the sorts of things that work well with the concept.
What Say Ye?
Anyone willing to play the "say when" game with me?
