D&D 5E Barbarian Archetype: Path of the Hulk

Hawk Diesel said:

So I've considered some of the feedback presented and have adjusted the archetype accordingly.


Hulk Smash
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, your fists become brutal weapons, becoming larger with sharp, bony protrusions growing from the knuckles. Your unarmed attacks now deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage. If you are not carrying weapons or using a shield, your unarmed attacks add double your rage damage while raging.

Based on average damage, I calculate that the difference between the unarmed strike and a greatsword is 1 point (in favor of the greatsword). This assumes that the Barbarian of the Hulk is raging, not using a shield and gaining double rage damage with a 16 strength against a non-Hulk raging barbarian with 16 strength using a greatsword. By level 20, the difference changes in that based on average damage the unarmed Hulk Barbarian is better by 1 point. Unarmed damage will be more consistent, but barbarians using weapons will have higher damage potential and have better damage dice to use for Brutal Critical.

Hulk Bash
Beginning at 3rd level, when you enter rage you grow more massive and your muscles bulge. Regardless of your starting size, you become large. Barbarians of the Hulk that are already large sized grow one size category larger (included just in case a large sized player race is ever created). If there isn’t enough room for you to grow to your new size, you attain the maximum possible size in the space available. As a result of your new size and strength, while raging you deal an additional 1d4 damage when you successfully strike with a melee attack. This damage is of the same type as made by the melee attack.

Prodigious Leap
Beginning at 6th level, you can leap much farther than normal. You normal jump distance is doubled. While raging, your normal jump distance is tripled.

Reasoning: It was suggested, and I liked it. Seems consistent in power level with other 6th level barbarian archetype abilities.

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I got thinking about alter self and how that spell mirrors some of the bony-protrusion descriptions you are going after here. Going with that, I thought maybe reorganize this a bit.

3rd Level
Gain the Slam attack - 2d4 + Str
Gain Tavern Brawler abilities - Unarmed Strike 1d4, Proficient with Improvised Weapons, Hit with unarmed, bonus action grapple
Rage - Grow to Large, gain 1d4 to all unarmed attacks + Rage, Slam attack becomes 3d4 + Str + 2xRage

6th Level
similar to the alter self spell, your fists grow bony protrusions and become +1 Magical weapons when raging
You're jump distance triples when raging

So when you rage, you can either Attack and Bonus to get 2d4 + STR + Rage and 2d4 + Rage (17dmg), or Slam attack to get 3d4+Str+2xRage (15dmg) and bonus to grapple. At higher levels Slam will start to outpace two unarmed strikes due to the rage bonus. This also makes your unarmed strikes magical at the same level as Monks, which is needed. The Slam attack is also better than a great axe when raging and keeps up even with GWM at higher levels.

Good catch, I definitely need to include unarmed strikes being considered magic weapons for purpose of damage resistance.

But I'm not sure how you're differentiating the unarmed strike vs. the slam attack. Is the slam a special action, meaning you could not use it with the extra attack ability? Is it not considered a light weapon and thus could not be used as a bonus action while two weapon fighting? Does the slam attack require both hands to use? I'm not sure how these are differentiated.

Also, I did not think you could use a bonus action to make an unarmed strike unless you were a monk. Why else would it specifically say you could do so as part of their martial arts ability? Maybe it's just about adding their strength/dex bonus to the damage, but without the books in front of me I'm not sure how that goes.

Hawk Diesel said:

Good catch, I definitely need to include unarmed strikes being considered magic weapons for purpose of damage resistance.

But I'm not sure how you're differentiating the unarmed strike vs. the slam attack. Is the slam a special action, meaning you could not use it with the extra attack ability? Is it not considered a light weapon and thus could not be used as a bonus action while two weapon fighting? Does the slam attack require both hands to use? I'm not sure how these are differentiated.

Also, I did not think you could use a bonus action to make an unarmed strike unless you were a monk. Why else would it specifically say you could do so as part of their martial arts ability? Maybe it's just about adding their strength/dex bonus to the damage, but without the books in front of me I'm not sure how that goes.

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Yikes, I forgot about that. Okay, so no bonus attack to worry about, in that case, I would think about the below. Also thought of a potentially neat 10th level ability.

3rd
Hulk Smash - Hulk barbarians make a special 2 handed slam attacks and are proficient with them. This is compatible with the Extra Attack feature. When you slam attack, you can attempt to grapple as a bonus, or, if the creature is already grappled, to knock prone or shove backward 10'. Hulk Barbarians are also proficient with improvised weapons.

Slam Attack - 2d4 + Str

Hulk Strong - When raging, you grow to large size and your Slam attack becomes more powerful
Slam Attack (when raging) - 3d4 + Str + 2xRage

6th
When raging, jump distance is trippled
Your hands grown bony protrusions and count as +1 magical weapons.

10th
You ignore the first 30' of falling damage.

OB1 said:

3rd
Hulk Smash - Hulk barbarians make a special 2 handed slam attacks and are proficient with them. This is compatible with the Extra Attack feature. When you slam attack, you can attempt to grapple as a bonus, or, if the creature is already grappled, to knock prone or shove backward 10'. Hulk Barbarians are also proficient with improvised weapons.

Slam Attack - 2d4 + Str

Hulk Strong - When raging, you grow to large size and your Slam attack becomes more powerful
Slam Attack (when raging) - 3d4 + Str + 2xRage

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I don't know if I necessarily like the slam doing 3d4 damage with double rage damage. It starts off with a raging hulk barbarian's unarmed attack as equal to a greataxe or greatsword (even understanding they would get an additional +1d4 damage), but then unarmed strike eventually outpaces them. My goal was to create an option where unarmed strike was a viable option on par with the heavier weapons, rather than to overshadow heavy weapons. Assuming 16 strength, a 3rd level raging hulk barbarian with the unarmed strike ability as I created it would deal 1d6 + 1d4 + 3 strength + 4 rage damage, making an average of 13. The same barbarian using a greataxe would deal 1d2 + 1d4 + 3 strength + 2 rage, making average damage of 14 damage. Average damage of unarmed strike is only one less than with a greataxe, but that attack will be more consistent while the greataxe might swing a bit more. Using your version, that same barbarian would deal 3d4 + 3 strength + 4 rage damage, averaging 14.5 damage. So not to bad at 3rd level, it's in the ballpark. But if we go to level 20 assuming maxed out strength of 24:

My version: 1d6 + 1d4 + 7 strength damage + 8 rage damage = average of 21

Greataxe Version: 1d12 + 1d4 + 7 strength + 4 rage = average of 20

Your version: 3d4 + 7 strength + 8 rage = average of 22.5

So I did this calculation as I was writing my post out, and it seems the difference between mine and yours isn't as bad as I initially thought. I do think your version of the slam outpaces use of weapons such as the greataxe, while my intent was to more make them on a level playing ground. I also have some concern about starting a barbarian's unarmed strike out as better than a monk. Monk's should be the kings of unarmed strikes. It's bad enough that in my version a 3rd level barbarian gets an unarmed strike that a monk won't get until level 5. I can live with that knowing that the unarmed strike will never improve like a monk's does, and it puts unarmed strike as a relatively neutral attack option compared to using weapons and no shield. But a 2d4 slam attack means the barbarian gets an unarmed strike option at 3rd level that is better than any monk weaker than level 11. That doesn't sit well with me. It also creates complications if you have a multiclass hulk barbarian/monk. Would a barbarian monk improve the slam along with their unarmed strike? If so, how would it progress? How would unarmed strike and slam interact? In my version there are some issues there as well. But because mine is an unarmed strike and a damage within the (relatively) normal progression of the monk unarmed strike table, it is a little less messy. Still messy! Just a little less (from my perspective).

OB1 said:

6th
When raging, jump distance is trippled
Your hands grown bony protrusions and count as +1 magical weapons.

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I don't think we need to make them +1 magic weapons. Just magical without a bonus for the purpose of resistance. Otherwise, we once more risk stepping on the toes of the monk and improving over the monk, since their unarmed strikes only become magical rather than +1 magic weapons.

OB1 said:

10th
You ignore the first 30' of falling damage.

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This is an interesting idea. It definitely fits as a ribbon ability within the power level of other level 10 barbarian class features. It also goes well with the jump ability.

Hawk Diesel said:

So I did this calculation as I was writing my post out, and it seems the difference between mine and yours isn't as bad as I initially thought. I do think your version of the slam outpaces use of weapons such as the greataxe, while my intent was to more make them on a level playing ground. I also have some concern about starting a barbarian's unarmed strike out as better than a monk. Monk's should be the kings of unarmed strikes. It's bad enough that in my version a 3rd level barbarian gets an unarmed strike that a monk won't get until level 5. I can live with that knowing that the unarmed strike will never improve like a monk's does, and it puts unarmed strike as a relatively neutral attack option compared to using weapons and no shield. But a 2d4 slam attack means the barbarian gets an unarmed strike option at 3rd level that is better than any monk weaker than level 11. That doesn't sit well with me. It also creates complications if you have a multiclass hulk barbarian/monk. Would a barbarian monk improve the slam along with their unarmed strike? If so, how would it progress? How would unarmed strike and slam interact? In my version there are some issues there as well. But because mine is an unarmed strike and a damage within the (relatively) normal progression of the monk unarmed strike table, it is a little less messy. Still messy! Just a little less (from my perspective).

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A couple of thoughts here. I specifically wouldn't make the Slam attack an "Unarmed Strike". It's regular 1d4 attack would be, but not the slam. That would prevent any Monk combo shenanigans. The balance with other Barbarians comes from not allowing it to mix with GWM.

Along with that, keep in mind that the Monk at level three also gets 2 1d4 Unarmed Strikes (Attack plus Bonus Attack) and can use a Ki point to get 3 1d4 strikes and that each of these includes the Monks Str or Dex and doesn't even account for using Monk d6 monk weapons. By fifth level when both would get the Extra Attack feature, the Raging Hulk would get 2 slam attacks, but the monk gets 4 1d6 + str attacks.

Agree that it's probably good enough to make the attacks magical and not +1 at 6th.

Ya know what? I actually like that idea. Making it a slam attack rather than an unarmed strike reduces complication of mixing with multiclass barbarian/monks. We can also include (as mentioned by [MENTION=6802553]BookBarbarian[/MENTION]) that the Slam attack is considered a heavy weapon for the purpose of abilities and feats, but does not negatively affect small characters as normal (don't want small characters taking disadvantage on their own slam attacks).

Version 3.0

Path of the Hulk
Barbarians that follow this path do not just channel their rage, they become avatars of uncontrolled anger and wrath that cause their body to grow in proportion to their rage. Most barbarians that follow this path have experienced an incredible trauma that opened the flood gates within their souls, allowing their rage to physically change their bodies into potent weapons, ensuring they will never be victims again. Barbarians of the Hulk usually change in some noticeable way when they rage in addition to getting larger. Some may change color, grow horns, or have their hands become savage clubs. Regardless of the type of change, the manner of the change is purely cosmetic and has no mechanical impact on the character.

SMASH!
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, your fists become brutal weapons, becoming larger with sharp, bony protrusions growing from the knuckles. You gain a slam attack that deals 2d4 bludgeoning damage. This attack is not considered an unarmed strike, and thus does not benefit from any abilities that enhance an unarmed strike. If you are not carrying weapons or using a shield, you add double your rage damage to your slam attack while raging.

BASH!
Beginning at 3rd level, when you enter rage you grow more massive and your muscles bulge. Regardless of your starting size, you become large. Barbarians of the Hulk that are already large sized grow one size category larger (included just in case a large sized player race is ever created). If there isn’t enough room for you to grow to your new size, you attain the maximum possible size in the space available. As a result of your new size and strength, while raging you deal an additional 1d4 damage when you successfully strike with a melee attack. This damage is of the same type as made by the melee attack.

JUMP!
Beginning at 6th level, you can leap much farther than normal. While raging, your normal jump distance is tripled.

MORE SMASH!
At 6th level, your slam attacks are considered magical for the purposes of overcoming damage resistance. In addition, your slam is considered a heavy weapon for the purposes of feats and abilities. This prevents you from using your slam attack as an off-hand attack or with two weapon fighting. You do not suffer disadvantage when using your slam attack as a small creature.

CRASH!
Beginning at 10th level, you can fall from great heights without concern due to your supernatural toughness. When you suffer falling damage, you can ignore the the first 30 feet.

I AM STRONGEST THERE IS!
Starting at 14th level, you are capable of throwing enemies about the battlefield as living projectiles. While raging with at least one free hand, you can use your action to make a special unarmed strike against a chosen target and throw them. The target cannot be larger than one size category larger than you. If successful, you throw them in a direction of your choosing. The target is thrown a distance equal to 1d6 times 5', and for each 5' the target takes 1d6 damage. The target is allowed a Dexterity Saving throw (DC 8 + proficiency + Strength mod) to avoid landing prone. If the target lands in a space occupied by another creature, that creature must also make a Dexterity Saving throw or take the same damage and be knocked Prone.

You have disadvantage on this attack if the target is one size category larger than you. You have advantage on this attack if the target is small size or smaller.

[MENTION=59848]Hawk Diesel[/MENTION] - I think this is great as is, but do have two more small things you may want to consider

Consider making the additional 1d4 damage from growing apply only to Slam attack. Clean way to encourage use of the Slam attack by not having it add to weapon damage or a multi-class monk unarmed strike.

Consider allowing a grapple as a bonus action at 3rd level and require the opponent to be grappled first for the 14th level ability. Smash could then be renamed SMASH and GRAB!

Either way, I'd say this is a great candidate to be published in the DMs Guild!

OB1 said:

Consider making the additional 1d4 damage from growing apply only to Slam attack. Clean way to encourage use of the Slam attack by not having it add to weapon damage or a multi-class monk unarmed strike.

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But the thing is I'm not trying to force the player to choose unarmed strike/slam attacks over weapons. I'm trying to make use of a kind of unarmed attack as a viable option, no better or worse, just different. In my design, raging makes you large and gives you an overall additional damage boost across the board. You could use slam with a shield and get the 3d4 damage, and if you go without a shield you then get double rage damage. I like designs that provide options, rather than push or pidgeon-hole players into specific niches. I ended up preferring your use of 2d4 (3d4 while raging) because a single d4 slam attack can't compete with using a greataxe or greatsword, but using multiple d4's for the slam makes it cleaner rather than making the slam a d6 and adding a d4 while raging.

OB1 said:

Consider allowing a grapple as a bonus action at 3rd level and require the opponent to be grappled first for the 14th level ability. Smash could then be renamed SMASH and GRAB!

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I love the name potential! But considering what other barbarian archetypes get at level 3, I just don't think there's enough design space to add any more than what I have. Also, the ability to throw someone is a special action, so it does not combine with Extra Attack. That is already a fairly high action economy cost. To force a player to use an action and bonus action (if grapple is offered as a bonus action) or devote 2 rounds to throwing an enemy (if grapple remains an attack action) becomes too clunky or costly to entice anyone to use it. Especially when you consider a warlock with eldritch blast and an invocation could replicate some of what this ability does almost right out the gate for much cheaper with regard to action economy cost.

OB1 said:

Either way, I'd say this is a great candidate to be published in the DMs Guild!

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Thanks! I have never considered publishing anything there, but nice to know it's worth considering. ^_^

Hawk Diesel said:

But the thing is I'm not trying to force the player to choose unarmed strike/slam attacks over weapons. I'm trying to make use of a kind of unarmed attack as a viable option, no better or worse, just different. In my design, raging makes you large and gives you an overall additional damage boost across the board. You could use slam with a shield and get the 3d4 damage, and if you go without a shield you then get double rage damage. I like designs that provide options, rather than push or pidgeon-hole players into specific niches. I ended up preferring your use of 2d4 (3d4 while raging) because a single d4 slam attack can't compete with using a greataxe or greatsword, but using multiple d4's for the slam makes it cleaner rather than making the slam a d6 and adding a d4 while raging.

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Oops, I thought the 1d4 would put weapons ahead, but they don't. Should have done the math before commenting!

Hawk Diesel said:

I love the name potential! But considering what other barbarian archetypes get at level 3, I just don't think there's enough design space to add any more than what I have. Also, the ability to throw someone is a special action, so it does not combine with Extra Attack. That is already a fairly high action economy cost. To force a player to use an action and bonus action (if grapple is offered as a bonus action) or devote 2 rounds to throwing an enemy (if grapple remains an attack action) becomes too clunky or costly to entice anyone to use it. Especially when you consider a warlock with eldritch blast and an invocation could replicate some of what this ability does almost right out the gate for much cheaper with regard to action economy cost.

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Makes complete sense! I was probably overthinking this and fell in love with the name

Hawk Diesel said:

Thanks! I have never considered publishing anything there, but nice to know it's worth considering. ^_^

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This is too good to not to be published there! And it's good timing with the new Thor moving coming out in a couple weeks.