[New DM Question] What about Simultaneous Movement?

TaranTheWanderer said:

Not necessarily. I could use a move to move towards a target to goad them towards you, use a bonus attack (maybe a quickened spell) then ready a dash action with the trigger ‘when they are 10 feet away’. Then move back 30 feet out of the opponent’s melee range and back behind cover.

It’s kind of situational. Maybe someone is behind cover and you are trying to draw them out or something.

To the OP. If they are out of combat and planning to go together, like your second example, I let them go at the same time at the slowest initiative.

For the Mexican stand off, I allow an insight and anyone who fails misses their turn, like an ambush situation. Still possible for everyone to go before the person imitating combat, but less likely.

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iserith said:

Dash only increases your speed. It does not allow you to move.

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Thank goodness - I’m not the only one who has been thinking about Dash the wrong way.
Thanks for being gentle with us, [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION], [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION]. [MENTION=6985696]Travis Henry[/MENTION]!

DM Dave1 said:

Thank goodness - I’m not the only one who has been thinking about Dash the wrong way.
Thanks for being gentle with us, @iserith, @Charlaquin. @Travis Henry!

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I don't think the game would break if you think of Dash as an "extra move." There might be some weird spell interactions. Or maybe a class feature would go awry (?). But otherwise it would probably work fine and it seems more intuitive that way to me.

Charlaquin said:

There are also other things you can spend movement on, such as ending the Probe condition or getting on or off a mount.

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Not sure sure my group would go for this house-ruled condition but you do you!

Dash is one of those things where it works close enough to how it worked in previous editions that it’s easy to assume you know how it works if you’re not looking at the new edition as a completely separate ruleset, and tends to work out more or less the same way if you do, but can lead to a few minor misconceptions here and there.

n 3e and 4e, moving was a kind of action. In 3.x you could move up to your speed as a move action, or run as a full round action. In 4e with its more streamlined action economy, you could move up to your speed as a move action and you could “trade down” your standard action for an additional move action or minor action (or a move for an additional minor), so if you wanted to run you used two move actions instead of a move and a standard action. 5e, at a glance, looks like it uses pretty much the same action economy as 4e, with minor actions re-named to bonus actions and without the ability to exchange actions of one type for another. It is easy therefore to assume that the Dash action is a replacement for the ability to trade a standard action for a move, and to file it away as a “double move” in your memory banks. And for the most part, your game won’t function much differently if you do make that assumption. But the truth is, movement in 5e is its own separate resource with its own separate economy from actions, and the Dash action gives you more of the resource you spend to move. A subtle difference, but not an insignificant one as we’ve seen.

Side note, I would assume that the reason they made this change to the way movement works, despite it being subtly unintuitive for players of previous editions was in part to cut down on game-y language like “action,” and in part to allow players to break up their movement, so you can spend some of it before taking an action and some after, instead of having to resolve your full move action in one go.

robus said:

Not sure sure my group would go for this house-ruled condition but you do you!

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The things that happen when you post from a phone

Charlaquin said:

Precisely, and hence the OP’s dilemma - if two PCs want to move simultaneously in combat, they are unable to move at twice their speed.

To the OP: If your issue is that you have difficulty aligning the mechanics with the fiction, consider that the two characters who plan to move simpultaneously need to spend some amount of time syncing up. Instead of each running as fast as they can and the one with faster reflexes getting ahead faster, they agree to run on the count of three or some other signal, so they move together, but cannot take full advantage of the 6-second period that a turn approximates as a result.

On the other hand, your game definitely won’t break if you allow players to Ready an action and movement with the Ready action instead of only one or the other.

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The game will also not break if you let someone with higher initiative let it slide until it matches his companions. Then, rather than readying a dash or movement, he just lets anyone go between his rolled initiative and his companions (meaning the goblins get to fire while everyone is still behind the cover of the cart) and takes his regular action when he comes off delay.

billd91 said:

The game will also not break if you let someone with higher initiative let it slide until it matches his companions. Then, rather than readying a dash or movement, he just lets anyone go between his rolled initiative and his companions (meaning the goblins get to fire while everyone is still behind the cover of the cart) and takes his regular action when he comes off delay.

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Oh, sure. Allowing delays is a perfectly valid option. Personally, I love that 5e removed delay because I like to encourage immediate action over careful consideration. It’s your turn, DO SOMETHING! But, that’s personal preference, and for those who enjoy being able to delay actions, you certainly won’t break the game by allowing it.

iserith said:

Dash only increases your speed. It does not allow you to move.

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No - moving is given as an example of a readied action in the phb and dash gives extra movement equal to your speed, it does not ×2 your speed. This helps avoid stacking issues eg if someone dashes and also has a bonus action that can be used to dash - with 30' movement that makes 30+30+30 = 90' total movement.

Edit: If the 'problem' is that a 30' speed character can't move 60' with a Readied action, well yes that's true and intentional. You can move 30' on your turn, Ready, then move 30' again as a Readied action though.

DM Dave1 said:

Are you saying one cannot Dash once the trigger occurs because it is no longer one's turn? That doesn't seem to be what the rule excerpt I've bolded above says.

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I think this might be techinically true. An action chosen by Ready occurs when triggered (and you use your reaction for it). In the vast majority of cases this will probably be on someone else's turn*. This means that Dash and Disengage are pointless to use with Ready.

And while the technical details are a bit nuts, I think it is the RAI after all: Ready is an action like others, so you can already Ready+move on your turn, so if you could obtain a double-move by readying Dash, you would end up with a triple movement in the course of the round (turn + reaction).

*You can fabricate a case when for some reason the player wants to Ready + move (instead of the more reasonable move + Ready) and the move triggers someone else's reaction which in turn triggers your Ready action, but I think it's quite artificial

For different reasons, Dodge is also pointless to use with Ready (it works, but it uses your reaction and the benefits starts after the trigger, so it makes no sense compared to just taking Dodge on your turn, which makes it last longer and doesn't consume your reaction) and Cast a Spell could be useful in extremely specific circumstances, but in most cases it's nonsense, thanks to the ad-hoc rule for readying spells which makes you waste the slot even if you don't cast it. I rather question the RAI for this one, as IMHO it's overly complicated and makes ready a spell nearly useless, compared to just allowind Ready the "Cast a Spell" action as normal.

DM Dave1 said:

Can you Ready a Ready? It's like turtles, all the way down...

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Technically yes, but you then need a second reaction to take the second-readied action, since you use the first reaction to take Ready a second time. I think it's quite obvious that even if your PC for some special reason can take 2 reactions, it makes no sense to make this choice.

Now, this thread made me want to see what happens if I play a Rogue(Thief) 17 / Fighter 1 with the Magic Initiate feat, and then use Thief's Reflexes in the first round of combat (to get 2 full turns in the same round including 2 actions + 2 bonus actions + 2 reactions), use the 2 bonus actions for the Expeditious Retreat spell (which grants... Dash!), activate Action Surge (such a pity I can't get the second use of it) to get a third action, and blow at least some of those actions to Ready something else

Li Shenron said:

I think this might be techinically true. An action chosen by Ready occurs when triggered (and you use your reaction for it). In the vast majority of cases this will probably be on someone else's turn*. This means that Dash and Disengage are pointless to use with Ready.

And while the technical details are a bit nuts, I think it is the RAI after all: Ready is an action like others, so you can already Ready+move on your turn, so if you could obtain a double-move by readying Dash, you would end up with a triple movement in the course of the round (turn + reaction).

*You can fabricate a case when for some reason the player wants to Ready + move (instead of the more reasonable move + Ready) and the move triggers someone else's reaction which in turn triggers your Ready action, but I think it's quite artificial

For different reasons, Dodge is also pointless to use with Ready (it works, but it uses your reaction and the benefits starts after the trigger, so it makes no sense compared to just taking Dodge on your turn, which makes it last longer and doesn't consume your reaction) and Cast a Spell could be useful in extremely specific circumstances, but in most cases it's nonsense, thanks to the ad-hoc rule for readying spells which makes you waste the slot even if you don't cast it. I rather question the RAI for this one, as IMHO it's overly complicated and makes ready a spell nearly useless, compared to just allowind Ready the "Cast a Spell" action as normal.



Technically yes, but you then need a second reaction to take the second-readied action, since you use the first reaction to take Ready a second time. I think it's quite obvious that even if your PC for some special reason can take 2 reactions, it makes no sense to make this choice.

Now, this thread made me want to see what happens if I play a Rogue(Thief) 17 / Fighter 1 with the Magic Initiate feat, and then use Thief's Reflexes in the first round of combat (to get 2 full turns in the same round including 2 actions + 2 bonus actions + 2 reactions), use the 2 bonus actions for the Expeditious Retreat spell (which grants... Dash!), activate Action Surge (such a pity I can't get the second use of it) to get a third action, and blow at least some of those actions to Ready something else

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"For different reasons, Dodge is also pointless to use with Ready"

Not pointless but situational...

Against a foe with attacks and options of what to do, if you dodge on your turn, go ahead and begin defensive actions stance etc above and beyond the norm, they might move to someone else to attack or switch to a save attack or a grapple etc.

If you ready a dodge perhaps keyed to them closing before attacking or perhaps keyed to being attacked (to affect the second or third swipe of a multiattack) then you do risk not hetting triggered sure but you also might draw them into a situation where they are using attacks against a foe at disadantage that they could have avoided.

Likely there are other options, but this "taunt and bunt" swerve has a place every noemw and again.