D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

Coroc · Jan 31, 2018

Well there is one fact totally overlooked in this whole thread:

Check out the (officially supported) D&D Computer Games:

Most of them have magic item Shops:
1st and 2nd ed
All of the infinity engine (Baldurs gate IWD Planescape etc.)
Both Dark sun games
Some Gold box games

3E
Neverwinter nights

The MMORPGs
3.5E
DDO
(based on 4E)
Neverwinter

Even the latest Thing with 5E like rules i cannot recall the Name sword coast legends it is i think. It is bugged with a grafic error since it last update making the game no big fun to Play but it has magic item Shops all over the place.

Those D&D games that did not have Shops are the eye of the beholder series, Both ravenloft and Menzoberranzan, all 2nd ed.

So it is not to far fetched to say:
Even if Pen and paper modules never supported the Shops that much,
there is no official saying that Magic item shops an absolute nono in D&D, en contraire they are featured in many of the CRPGs

lowkey13 · Jan 31, 2018

*Deleted by user*

Matrix Sorcica · Jan 31, 2018

lowkey13 said:
No, you didn't.

You're welcome! Here's a pro-tip; if you find that people are unable to understand your points because they don't agree with their experience, then maybe your experience is not universal.

For example, if you theory is that everyone is playing APs, or that games have to run a certain way, and these are base ideas that are required for your theories ... wait, allow me to quote you-

"What we want (go ahead and say we are entitled) is for the maker of the game to support their own game and the contents they chose to put into it."

.... then it's possible that perhaps you are making an argument that the rules aren't supporting the type of game you play, or want to play. That's a much better argument than saying that the rules aren't supporting the actual game, or the game that other people are playing.

I appreciate the thanks, and will help out any time!

Your solutions in your reply to that post were more or less a 1:1 to what is not a solution for me, i.e. make it up yourself, just reduce money, spend money on castles (not you exact words). I asked Horus, so let me ask you, how would you make treaure worthwhile in a campaign that features almost no downtime, or where you and your players have no interest in domains, inns etc.?

I think you misunderstand as to the type of game I want to play, but really playstyles are not the focus for me right here - it's official support for making gold useful. The rules tell you to hand out vast amounts of gold, but give very little guidance on how the PCs are supposed to make use of it. And, as mentioned, WotC's own adventures contains no support either.
"Make it up" is not the solution for me. Then I wouldn't be asking for support.

Warmaster Horus · Jan 31, 2018

Matrix Sorcica said:
Ah, so WotC gave us rules for this then. No, they didn't, so the DM has to come up with something for this as well, which is one of the issues I have. If WotC tells you to hand out vast amounts of money, thay should also provide DM support when the players wants to use said money. The support so far is woefully lacking. ...

Or not. See XGtE. Or the DMG. Or the DM's Guild for all kinds of ideas. It's there. You may want more, but WotC doesn't owe you that.

Matrix Sorcica · Jan 31, 2018

Warmaster Horus said:
Or not. See XGtE. Or the DMG. Or the DM's Guild for all kinds of ideas. It's there. You may want more, but WotC doesn't owe you that.

We're probably not going to agree.

Kobold Boots · Jan 31, 2018

Matrix Sorcica said:
I think you misunderstand as to the type of game I want to play, but really playstyles are not the focus for me right here - it's official support for making gold useful. The rules tell you to hand out vast amounts of gold, but give very little guidance on how the PCs are supposed to make use of it. And, as mentioned, WotC's own adventures contains no support either.
"Make it up" is not the solution for me. Then I wouldn't be asking for support.

That's fair, but it's also a very modernist way of looking at what "support" means in relation to the game and I'd guess it's an effect of adults playing the game and DMing with precious little spare time to want to write up their own support.

You're going to get arguments from the "old school" camp (which I'm a part of honestly) because we've traditionally just written up things to fill the holes and understand that those holes will exist until a game has about 10 years of production behind it.

Whether or not we're swift enough to realize/rationalize why there's a difference between your position and mine depends on the individual.

Be well
KB

Nevvur · Jan 31, 2018

[MENTION=3547]Matrix Sorcica[/MENTION]

Why do you feel it's necessary for gold to be useful beyond acquiring the basic necessities for adventuring?

Matrix Sorcica · Jan 31, 2018

Finding loot has always been a part of D&D. The DMG has tables upon tables for distributing treasure. You get more and more as levels increase.
Why? If there's nothing to spend it on? If you're supposed to spend it only on downtime, why is this part so vaguely supported?

Nevvur · Jan 31, 2018

Coroc said:
Well there is one fact totally overlooked in this whole thread:

Check out the (officially supported) D&D Computer Games:

Most of them have magic item Shops:
1st and 2nd ed
All of the infinity engine (Baldurs gate IWD Planescape etc.)
Both Dark sun games
Some Gold box games

3E
Neverwinter nights

The MMORPGs
3.5E
DDO
(based on 4E)
Neverwinter

Even the latest Thing with 5E like rules i cannot recall the Name sword coast legends it is i think. It is bugged with a grafic error since it last update making the game no big fun to Play but it has magic item Shops all over the place.

Those D&D games that did not have Shops are the eye of the beholder series, Both ravenloft and Menzoberranzan, all 2nd ed.

So it is not to far fetched to say:
Even if Pen and paper modules never supported the Shops that much,
there is no official saying that Magic item shops an absolute nono in D&D, en contraire they are featured in many of the CRPGs

I would consider that a false equivalency. By the same token, it's not fair to use D&D novels and the lack of magic shops in them as evidence that magic shops shouldn't exist in D&D. We ought to treat each system of storytelling as its own thing.

For that matter, I think we need to treat 5e as its own system rather than a revision/recombination of earlier editions. Its lineage is obvious and endears many players to it, but it clearly didn't inherit all the traits of its forebears. As an academic exercise, for those wanting market prices on magic items, can you support your position without hearkening back to previous editions?

Nevvur · Jan 31, 2018

Matrix Sorcica said:
Finding loot has always been a part of D&D. The DMG has tables upon tables for distributing treasure. You get more and more as levels increase.
Why? If there's nothing to spend it on? If you're supposed to spend it only on downtime, why is this part so vaguely supported?

So... wealth must be useful just because it exists?

It seems like you're approaching this from a purely mechanical stand point of progression paths. Finding loot has always been a part of D&D, but so has the story wherein that loot is found. If the story doesn't feature wealth expenditure during uptime, as with the oft-cited ToA, then your problem should be with the story, not the system.