How would you RP this character?

killem2 said:

I have been having issues with the charisma 3 thing, and looking at other monsters that have cha 3.

I noticed the war forged charger has 3 cha and it doesn't look like it came from the blue lagoon. lol

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Warforged Charger's also have Int 5 and Wis 7, so a different explanation can be made for their lack of persuasiveness and personal magnetism - they are dumb as a brick. Deeply mentally handicapped persons are generally more socialable than warforged chargers. Also, warforged charger's happily live to the left of the uncanny valley. Being completely inhuman the minor animal-like resemblance make the otherwise horrific appearance of the construct look a little bit cute - but not in a way that you'd take orders from, more like how a bulldog, gorilla or a warthog can look cute. However, the more real the thing looked, the less attractive I think it would be. It's easy to avoid revulsion on the thing when its inanimate and cartoonish. If you met the thing IRL, and it tried to talk to you, I'm pretty sure that you'd find it disturbing and unlikable.

It sounds to me from your objection that you've taken the absolutely worst possible charisma a human can have, and are trying to advance an argument that his charisma isn't utterly crippling - he doesn't look that bad, he isn't that offensive, he isn't so unattactive, etc. While I'm sure equally powerful explanations for his three charisma can be advanced beyond a belching flatuant vulgar obnoxious drunkard, any of them that fail to convey a picture of equal social ineptitude don't really convey charisma of 3. This is someone who is brutally unlikeable in every respect, whose charisma is probably lower than just about any protagonist in any fiction I'm familiar with and certainly lower than any also not described as being low in wisdom and intelligence. The closest I can come to is Nobby Nobbs in Disqworld, whose pictures you should look up, but the thing is I'm not sure that I wouldn't stat Nobby at 4 or 5 charisma because he's not a completely unlikable person. My description is intended to fit with the worst traits of an aggressive drunkard.

This guy sounds just like Marv, from Sin City.

They even make a joke on the comic/movie about Marv being born in the wrong place/age, since he would be more at home on a gladiator arena.

Ramaster said:

This guy sounds just like Marv, from Sin City.

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Marv in D&D terms is probably LE with above average charisma. He's somewhat physically attractive, imposing, intimidating, and is written to gain the reader's sympathy despite his violent tendencies. He's really big on Vengence, and has an externally reviewable code of honor, and has no compunction against using torture. This is strongly IMO within the LE moral frame work - "When someone hits you, hit them back twice as hard." and "More than an eye for an eye; more than a tooth for a tooth." When approached by the authorities he agrees to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

This character in my opinion is nothing like Marv. Mickey Rourke may not be conventionally handsome like Tom Cruise, but he is certainly charismatic - Mickey playing this character would need to be viler and less attractive. This character won't easily get sympathy from anyone except maybe after some insight pity. Noone wants to be in his company. As a CN he's probably much more motivated by self-defence than vengeance, and he probably doesn't care much if he's insulted or reviled - people have a right to their opinion, right - unless it becomes a real threat to him. It's not that he couldn't bear a grudge, it's just he wouldn't see not bearing a grudge as a sign of unforgivable weakness nor would he necessarily see the ability to dominate others as the measure of a person. Indeed, as a CN he's probably uncomfortable both with making others do what he wants or anyone else lording over others. Personal freedom is very important to him, and he's not evil so using evil to get his way makes him really uncomfortable. He might not outright refuse to torture someone, but he wouldn't want to do it and he'd certainly not prefer it. Just because you put 'chaotic' in front of your alignment doesn't give you blanket right to do whatever you want to anyone else. CN is not equal to CE lite.

Celebrim said:

Warforged Charger's also have Int 5 and Wis 7, so a different explanation can be made for their lack of persuasiveness and personal magnetism - they are dumb as a brick. Deeply mentally handicapped persons are generally more socialable than warforged chargers. Also, warforged charger's happily live to the left of the uncanny valley. Being completely inhuman the minor animal-like resemblance make the otherwise horrific appearance of the construct look a little bit cute - but not in a way that you'd take orders from, more like how a bulldog, gorilla or a warthog can look cute. However, the more real the thing looked, the less attractive I think it would be. It's easy to avoid revulsion on the thing when its inanimate and cartoonish. If you met the thing IRL, and it tried to talk to you, I'm pretty sure that you'd find it disturbing and unlikable.

It sounds to me from your objection that you've taken the absolutely worst possible charisma a human can have, and are trying to advance an argument that his charisma isn't utterly crippling - he doesn't look that bad, he isn't that offensive, he isn't so unattactive, etc. While I'm sure equally powerful explanations for his three charisma can be advanced beyond a belching flatuant vulgar obnoxious drunkard, any of them that fail to convey a picture of equal social ineptitude don't really convey charisma of 3. This is someone who is brutally unlikeable in every respect, whose charisma is probably lower than just about any protagonist in any fiction I'm familiar with and certainly lower than any also not described as being low in wisdom and intelligence. The closest I can come to is Nobby Nobbs in Disqworld, whose pictures you should look up, but the thing is I'm not sure that I wouldn't stat Nobby at 4 or 5 charisma because he's not a completely unlikable person. My description is intended to fit with the worst traits of an aggressive drunkard.

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I just feel that he has pretty much every thing socially wrong with him, and the worst of worst hygene, but doesn't look like he was hit with a mack truck exactly
I tend to focus a lot more on charisma being personaility traits rather than just looks. Your examples are very good and keep them coming!

I am more concerned for whoever is running this game and the other players. A character with such a low rating in Charisma will be a hindrance almost all the time, not just to himself but to the party. His low Charisma should cause such a distraction that eventually a large amount of the game should focus upon it. This will cause this one character to suck up so much of the story time that the other characters might not get their fair share of time in the spotlight. Add on that the character is a Chaotic Neutral drunk and the problem is increased enormously. Most of that attention will not be in a way that advances the story in a way that the DM and the other players intended, or much at all.

When characters like this are introduced in a game I am running or especially playing in, I question why I wouldn't just go find a swordarm, mage, priest, etc., that was much less flawed to accompany on the group on their missions? Oh because the character is controlled by another player. Well that answer doesn't fly with me and I would try to convince the rest of the group that we could probably find somebody else who was much less of a distraction to time, players, and story. I notice players with brawny characters often slight charisma and role-players by nature are creative so they can spin a reason why their low charisma character makes sense and the can apply those points somewhere else. I rarely see anyone try to explain away their 3 constitution score. Oh that is because nobody ever tries to role-play that challenge. It comes up too much and you can't rely on your friends to do all the serious talking and get you out of jams. I think you should think seriously on the impact this character will have on everybody else playing the game.

A low charisma can just mean the PC lacks any sort of personal magnetism. He doesn't need to automatically be unpleasant, unless that's what you want to play. Also alcoholism and physical aggressiveness characterize pretty much every barbarian, ever, so we're not really looking down a curve ball there.

Personally I would turn Mr. Barbie into a slouching loner in the corner who likes to think of himself as a wildcard. You know: the kind of guy who likes to swoop into a situation and then swoop back out before he is forced to make any kind of personal commitment. (Commitment, btw, is his very worst fear.) He's very susceptible to feeling cornered by any sort of normal interaction and is prone to lash out if the conversation isn't happening on his terms.

To prevent him from being a PITA to the rest of the party, I would find a way to make an exception in his relationship to the other PCs. Maybe he has an infantile attachment to a member of the party or to the party in general?

Gaming Tonic said:

I am more concerned for whoever is running this game and the other players. A character with such a low rating in Charisma will be a hindrance almost all the time, not just to himself but to the party. His low Charisma should cause such a distraction that eventually a large amount of the game should focus upon it. This will cause this one character to suck up so much of the story time that the other characters might not get their fair share of time in the spotlight. Add on that the character is a Chaotic Neutral drunk and the problem is increased enormously. Most of that attention will not be in a way that advances the story in a way that the DM and the other players intended, or much at all.

When characters like this are introduced in a game I am running or especially playing in, I question why I wouldn't just go find a swordarm, mage, priest, etc., that was much less flawed to accompany on the group on their missions? Oh because the character is controlled by another player. Well that answer doesn't fly with me and I would try to convince the rest of the group that we could probably find somebody else who was much less of a distraction to time, players, and story. I notice players with brawny characters often slight charisma and role-players by nature are creative so they can spin a reason why their low charisma character makes sense and the can apply those points somewhere else. I rarely see anyone try to explain away their 3 constitution score. Oh that is because nobody ever tries to role-play that challenge. It comes up too much and you can't rely on your friends to do all the serious talking and get you out of jams. I think you should think seriously on the impact this character will have on everybody else playing the game.

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My last character was a miser/obsessive accountant. We are very good friends, this, is too petty to get upset over.

We have one guy who is a blasphemous ugly ghost elf, one who is a cheery go lucky petal, a delusional rogue, and by the rest of the standards a normal half giant psychic warrior.

Its kind of a freak show.

Gaming Tonic said:

I am more concerned for whoever is running this game and the other players. A character with such a low rating in Charisma will be a hindrance almost all the time, not just to himself but to the party. His low Charisma should cause such a distraction that eventually a large amount of the game should focus upon it. This will cause this one character to suck up so much of the story time that the other characters might not get their fair share of time in the spotlight. Add on that the character is a Chaotic Neutral drunk and the problem is increased enormously. Most of that attention will not be in a way that advances the story in a way that the DM and the other players intended, or much at all.

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All of this is quite possibly true, and thing that a new DM should be aware of. There are several possibilities though:

a) All the players at the table are of the Thespian inclination, and so there is little they relish more than a bunch of melodramatic play. Everyone else at the table has a character that is equally extreme of a misfit in some regard that stands out from the rest (even if 'Dudley Do-Right'), and so they know everyone is going to be getting in deep.
b) All the players at the table are power gamers and they know that the game is not going to focus on RP, but on kicking down the doors, killing things and taking their stuff. Any RP is mostly for color because that's not what the game is really about.
c) The player playing the PC is very skilled.
d) The player playing the PC isn't going to grab spotlight. It's just not his personality.

I think it can be handled. One of the late departed PC's in my game was a CN Mokoheen warrior cult fanatic (think tatoo'd Mauri warrior, with pointy teeth) with the Misanthrope (Beast) trait, which meant that he got along well with Dinosaurs - but everyone and everything else treated him as some sort of monster (because, well, at some level, he was). Members of the party with higher diplomacy were continually saying things that amounted to, "Pardon the mess my dog is making. I'll clean it up/pay for it. He does have his uses though.", in order to try to patch things up. It's ok. After that character died, I approved a bright blue Hobgoblin with fae ancestory (same player) who worked as a mercenary/thug for a Dwarf Thane. After "Blue" died, I approved a 6 Chr Hobgoblin fighter, the body guard/batman for a wizard of a royal household (again, same player). Each character was a lot of fun and added to the game.

When characters like this are introduced in a game I am running or especially playing in, I question why I wouldn't just go find a swordarm, mage, priest, etc., that was much less flawed to accompany on the group on their missions? Oh because the character is controlled by another player.

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Well, yes and no. Typically, when I'm playing in a game I try to open up my backstory in such a way that the character's of other players have some inherent ties to me. For example, why wouldn't I just go find a swordarm, wizard, etc. that was much less flawed - "Because he's my brother. Please ignore the foul manners/hourglass eyes/the fact that he's a midget/albino/werewolf/wanted criminal. It's a long story." So, no, "He's a PC", doesn't fly as an in game explanation. The player is my friend might fly as an out of game explanation for why I'd create an in game mutual backstory.

killem2 said:

I just feel that he has pretty much every thing socially wrong with him, and the worst of worst hygene, but doesn't look like he was hit with a mack truck exactly
I tend to focus a lot more on charisma being personaility traits rather than just looks. Your examples are very good and keep them coming!

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The scars I agree are completely optional. The main attraction in the scars for me as opposed to some other sort of unattractive appearance, is that they visibly displayed that he might have some reason behind his alchoholism and aggressive behavior. But you certainly don't have to go for anything as crude or showy in a PC (I'm normally used to creating NPCs, that need to be a little showy to provoke engagement). The combination of 13 Int and 15 Wis says to me someone who would normally be quite thoughtful and who had the capacity to live life well. So the thing that I consider most interesting about the character is what has lead him to decide drunk and aggressive is the best way to live life.

Celebrim said:

Well, yes and no. Typically, when I'm playing in a game I try to open up my backstory in such a way that the character's of other players have some inherent ties to me. For example, why wouldn't I just go find a swordarm, wizard, etc. that was much less flawed - "Because he's my brother. Please ignore the foul manners/hourglass eyes/the fact that he's a midget/albino/werewolf/wanted criminal. It's a long story." So, no, "He's a PC", doesn't fly as an in game explanation. The player is my friend might fly as an out of game explanation for why I'd create an in game mutual backstory.

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See now that I can understand. I have a couple of those brothers. Half my group is thespian and the other half are combat oriented. Creating a mutual backstory is a good way to help out the DM, so that is a positive. Not every group is the same and it sounds like your group is cool with it and that is what really counts. I guess some of the players in my group are a bit heedless of the others but it doesn't sound like that is much of a problem in your group. If everyone is having fun that is what really counts.