Here Are The Most Popular D&D Feats (War Caster Leads The Pack!)

FrogReaver said:

The top 5 reasons paladins take it (in no particular order):
1. To do what they want while avoiding silly sheninigans like dropping weapons during combat
2. For a big early bonus to concentration saves
3. Because their DM rules that having the feat allows you to cast whatever spells you want while holding weapons or a weapon and shield in both hands
4. There's a spell they really want to be able to cast as a reaction, possibly booming blade picked up through multiclassing
5. They don't like the visuals of sheathing their weapon in combat to cast a spell

My guess is that some combination of those reasons are why most every player choose the feat.

Click to expand...

1. I understand for players who don't like role play in there table top strategy game. They exist, but enougth for #1?
2. Sure lower level characters are more common. Actually a pretty valid point. I tend to think this is the best reason though resilience would also apply to other con saves, knowing that I would wander why it didn't make the top 3 if warcaster did for this reason?
3. Two handed weapons don't require 2 hands just to carry but to wield so all the paladins not using a shield don't need a feat (polearms masters being the 3rd most picked feat and great weapon masters) add to that not having many spells that you would need to cast more than once a battle with a somatic but not a material component. The only good one that has been pointed out was Dispel magic. Cure wounds can be ignored with lay on hands for the most part and everything else is ether better served out of battle or would generally last the whole fight. Largely your talking about 1 maybe 2 casts in a generally melee and smite fight.
4. Multi classing ... that is a consideration.
5. Hu? Its schematic they do it in movies and video game trailers all the time just because it makes for cool, "Now he is really serious!" moment.. but no accounting for taste.

That said, you do realize 1,3, and 4 are basically table "because". I would be more surprised if they were enough to push any feat to the #1 spot than anything.

So I can see some of #2 but not on its own and a lot of #4 pushing it higher than I might have thought. A booming blade sorcerer smite might not be optimal but for people who like theory crafting it seems like something people would want to try. I can also see that shield, hellish rebuke, counter spell, and Absorb Elements being pulled form multi-classing and making holding the weapon actually matter since actions but not reactions let you pick it back up. As well as adding spell options to make opportunity casting more appealing like booming blade as you mentioned.

I was defiantly thinking of paladins as just paladins but considering all the 2 lvl multi-classes dips in paladin for smite I have seen ... that makes a certain since. They don't show for example top 3 feats for paladins with 8 levels of paladins vs paladins with the first 2 in paladin and the next 8 in sorcerer,bard, or warlock. If they did it might confirm that as the reason its higher than I would expect.

ClaytonCross said:

Its not a house rule:
They left drop weapon of the list of free actions because dropping stuff doesn't cost a free action. It takes that little effort to let go.

Click to expand...

If it's not a house rule, then cite what book and page this "drop weapon doesn't cost your free 'interact with objects' action" exists on. Sage advice and Crawford's tweets are suggestions, not rules, and are not used by a lot of people. It has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread already, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up house rules and claiming that they're universally accepted RAW.

Its also not that goofy to imagine someone stabbing the sword into the ground or dropping a hammer on its head to cast a spell that is urgent enough to not be smiting as a paladin generally does, then take that second that is needed to retrieve your weapon before moving on. It would be more silly if that were not the case. In my opinion. You want another turn just to pick up your weapon?

Click to expand...

Stabbing a sword into the ground is not dropping it, and is precisely the kind of thing covered by the one free 'interact with object' per turn. I think that expecting all tables to accept "there's a rule that says I can't cast with a weapon in my hand, but by inventing a 'free action' that doesn't exist in the rules I can bypass it, especially if I narrate it as something other than what I used to justify the action being free in the first place" is a bit much.

ClaytonCross said:

I have never played D&D without someone wanting to be "the scout" and even if they fail to spot the enemy they are always about 30ft forward meaning that any character moving 30ft and attacking would be 60ft away from the paladin and would likely double move for their turn not getting a chance to attack. If your saying you never use scouts I am sure you have these problems.

Click to expand...

Your DM plays an incredibly soft and forgiving game with you if your scouts always find the enemy, you always know what the enemy is, the enemy never runs off or sets traps, rooms with enemies never have traps that make having 'the scout' inside while the rest of the party is outside dangerous, the enemy is always what they seem on initial look and never have reinforcements, and there are few enough encounters per day that you are safe pre-buffing with 1 minute spells before every fight. If you're saying your scouts always find the enemy and the enemy never does anything but blindly charge you and never has reinforcements or other surprises, I'm sure you can always pre-buff. But it doesn't represent the majority of games out there.

EDIT: Also, this sounds very much like "D&D as a paper MMO" playing - for a lot of people, the point of playing pen and paper vs computer is to have more real interactions with enemies, and these set piece battles where you know in advance what you're in for aren't that at all.

Dausuul said:

You never encounter foes that lurk in ambush and let the scout go past so they can attack the entire party? Or ambush with ranged attacks? Or teleportation, invisibility, or shapechanging to look like an ally?

...All I can say is, your DM is very, very nice to you.

Click to expand...

I have, the Paladin cast his spell the first round then drew his weapon after and move into 5ft so if they moved he would get the opportunity attack ...every time.. .without fail. My GM actively tries to kill me as scout so no, he is not being very very nice.

I would like to take this moment to thank Wizards of the coast for Shadow of Moil and misty step though, without ether of this character would have died many times over. Thunderstep is not bad ether but when I found it my GM suddenly started including a wizard with counter spell in every single ambush... but until last session just one so misty step still saved me as I was able to argue that the text on counter spell "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell." means that you do not cast it if it is countered and while he says it takes my spell slot, I was able to get a concession that since I wasted my action, lost a spell slot, but did not actually cast a spell then the cantrip restriction on a bonus spell does not apply, allowing me to cast misty step on the same turn as a counter spelled attempt. I only have 2 spell slots so I was stuck with eldritch blast spam for the rest of the fight but at least I didn't get murdered by the ambush in the first round.

OverlordOcelot said:

Your DM plays an incredibly soft and forgiving game with you if your scouts always find the enemy, you always know what the enemy is, the enemy never runs off or sets traps, rooms with enemies never have traps that make having 'the scout' inside while the rest of the party is outside dangerous, the enemy is always what they seem on initial look and never have reinforcements, and there are few enough encounters per day that you are safe pre-buffing with 1 minute spells before every fight. If you're saying your scouts always find the enemy and the enemy never does anything but blindly charge you and never has reinforcements or other surprises, I'm sure you can always pre-buff. But it doesn't represent the majority of games out there.

EDIT: Also, this sounds very much like "D&D as a paper MMO" playing - for a lot of people, the point of playing pen and paper vs computer is to have more real interactions with enemies, and these set piece battles where you know in advance what you're in for aren't that at all.

Click to expand...

Lol, wow. I never said any of that and insulting my GM seems like a poor way to debate a point you disagree with and its simply not true. I don't know whats coming, he activitly tries to kil me, but I also have the alert feat and expertise in perception through prodigy. I don't stray more than 30ft from my party as a rule because if they ambush me the party can move into aid in one turn. I have 120ft range with eldrich blast so if the party is attacked from behind because I missed the ambush I can engage immediately. with any melee ambushers.

... but that like encounters per day, like reinforcements, like being ambushed doesn't do anything to stop the paladin from droping his weapon, casting his spell, and using a free action to pick it up... This is just an attack on my GM that losts its point in blind hate. ... really? why? Your just trying to say I am not worthy of an opinion because we scout successfully most of the time on a character that is built to be a scout.... This does not take any meaning away from point. None. What so ever.

OverlordOcelot said:

If it's not a house rule, then cite what book and page this "drop weapon doesn't cost your free 'interact with objects' action" exists on. Sage advice and Crawford's tweets are suggestions, not rules, and are not used by a lot of people. It has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread already, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up house rules and claiming that they're universally accepted RAW.



Stabbing a sword into the ground is not dropping it, and is precisely the kind of thing covered by the one free 'interact with object' per turn. I think that expecting all tables to accept "there's a rule that says I can't cast with a weapon in my hand, but by inventing a 'free action' that doesn't exist in the rules I can bypass it, especially if I narrate it as something other than what I used to justify the action being free in the first place" is a bit much.

Click to expand...

He stated that was rules as intended. Thats why it wasn't on the very extensive chart. As Lead Rules Designer for Wizards of the Coast it might not be "RAW" but if he says that was always the intent and the best answer you have is to say "Its a house rule because it was explicitly stated word for word" is pretty week since your adding in a rule that says dropping a weapon takes your free action when that is not in the rules ether. There is a list PHB p190, and it does not say "dropping or picking up a weapon" but the do mention picking up a weapon. So there is more to support me than you.

[MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION] I just want to say I appropriate you actually trying to argue the point even half side ways where others have devolved into personal attacks trying to devalue people instead of debate the information we know. On the point of the question asked. Why are people personally offended by the idea they don't need warcaster to cast a vary small niche of spells instead of considering something like multi-classing and low level paladins getting a better consecration save than resilient(con) for games that are not expected to go higher than 7 and that might inflate those numbers as you pointed out?

ClaytonCross said:

Lol, wow. I never said any of that and insulting my GM seems like a poor way to debate a point you disagree with and its simply not true. I don't know whats coming, he activitly tries to kil me, but I also have the alert feat and expertise in perception through prodigy.

Click to expand...

You didn't say that, but if all of that is not true then your paladin doesn't have enough information to safely buff before each fight, and instead will have times where it turns out a fight is not as expected and he wants to cast a spell mid-fight based on changing conditions. Or fights where he gets ambushed. Or fights where he regrets pre-casting a buff because the enemy decided to run once they saw the party. Or fights where it looked minor at first, but then turned out that one of the generic guards was a werewolf (or other significantly tough creatures).

I don't stray more than 30ft from my party as a rule because if they ambush me the party can move into aid in one turn. I have 120ft range with eldrich blast so if the party is attacked from behind because I missed the ambush I can engage immediately. with any melee ambushers.

Click to expand...

So the DM plays that enemies can only detect someone in front, and if the party is a mere 30' behind the scout they're unnoticeable? And there are never traps that close off a room from the hallway once someone steps in? Honestly, it is hilarious to me how many people on the boards appear to have never encountered the common 'stone slab drops in the doorway' traps.

This is just an attack on my GM that losts its point in blind hate. ... really? why? Your just trying to say I am not worthy of an opinion because we scout successfully most of the time on a character that is built to be a scout.... This does not take any meaning away from point. None. What so ever.

Click to expand...

It's not an attack on your GM, it's pointing out that the softball, MMO-like play style where the paladin can always safely pre-buff isn't the norm. At no point did I say anything like 'playing softball is bad', or 'playing MMO style is bad', simply that both playstyles are far from universal and being surprised that people might play games that involve ambushes, phased fights, fleeing enemies, unknown opponents, and the like, and therefore want to cast spells mid-fight is not sensible.

... but that like encounters per day, like reinforcements, like being ambushed doesn't do anything to stop the paladin from droping his weapon, casting his spell, and using a free action to pick it up...

Click to expand...

That's a house rule, not RAW, as I've pointed out to you multiple times.

ClaytonCross said:

Sure, but that's not really what I am asking. What I am asking is, "Why?" Warcaster is not really a flavor feat its more of a function feat. Taking tavern brawler because you want to fist fight the party monk, actor to pretend to be the captain of the guard, skilled to fill out a story concept roll, or even Mage Slayer because a sorcerer kill your paw... sure. I understand those. Warcaster isn't a strong flavor options for building a character concept and its not very functional for Paladins. So my question is what are people taking it for? They are not taking Resilient (CON) for the same function so I already figured they are not looking for better concentration saves. I am just trying to figure out what draws paladin player to pick this to such an extent that its the #1 picked paladin feat. I am not say they are wrong. I am just curious what the thought pattern is because I don't see it.

Click to expand...

Someone may have already answered, but in our experience, folks do take Warcaster thematically. I sat there and watched it happen one time.

"Hey, I want to be a kinda battlemage, with an army background from War Mage School, can I take Warcaster?"

"Sure"

It fit the RP and didn't gimp the character, so we see no problems with it.

That could be the thought process you are looking for.

Edit: Oh...Paladin...my bad, not sure.

ClaytonCross said:

He stated that was rules as intended. Thats why it wasn't on the very extensive chart. As Lead Rules Designer for Wizards of the Coast it might not be "RAW"

Click to expand...

It isn't RAW, and if it's not RAW it's a house rule. A lot of people do not accept Crawford Tweets or sage advice in their games. Acting surprised at this well-known fact is silly, as is being surprised that people make feat decisions based on the rules they use and note some tweets or message boards.