Pathfinder 2E Will Pathfinder 2nd Edition Be Based on D&D 5E?

There seems to be a bit of confusion about the nature of Pathfinder 2nd Edition, with some folks believing that it will be based on the D&D 5E rules engine, in a similar way to how the original Pathfinder was based of the D&D 3.5 rules engine. The evidence points to it not being so.
playtestbook.jpg



In accordance with Betteridge's Law of Headlines, the quick answer is "no".

Paizo's Erik Mona says "While it's reasonable to assume that developments in other games have gone into some of our thinking with this new edition, it'd be wrong to assume that we're explicitly trying to make the game more like 5e, or like any other game. What we're trying to do is make the very best version of Pathfinder that we can."

But decide for yourself! The demo game on the Glass Cannon podcast doesn't sound much like D&D 5th Edition at all, certainly not to me. But give a listen and draw your own conclusions.

Pathfinder 2nd Edition will surely borrow concepts from a whole range of games, and 5E will almost certainly be notable amongst them. But even from the little description we have so far, I'm seeing influences from things like Cubicle 7's The One Ring, and other games.

While Paizo has said that Pathfinder 2nd Edition will be release under the Open Gaming License (the OGL) it's important to note that the OGL has been around for nearly two decades, and dozens of games are released under it (Pathfinder 1, Fate, Mutants & Masterminds, WOIN), none of which have the slightest thing to do with D&D 5E. There isn't a "5E OGL"; there's just the OGL. It doesn't contain any rules; it's just a way to license content to third parties. Paizo uses the OGL to license its game engine to its large array of third party publishers, and will be continuing to do so, whatever form that game engine comes in.

So why release it under the OGL? No matter what the system looks like, even if it diverged so far from D&D as to be utterly unrecognisable, many of the "nouns" of the system are rooted in D&D history -- spell names, monsters, and so on. "Magic Missile", for example, or "Ankheg", or a thousand other terms which were irrevocably made Open Gaming Content nearly twenty years ago and are a fundamental part of Pathfinder's identity as much as they are a part of D&D's identity. Pathfinder's "story" elements - those names - requires continuing access to those terms. That doesn't mean that the game system has anything to do with it, though, or that it needs to resemble 5E (or 4E, or 3E, or Fate, or WOIN, or any of several dozen OGL games). The OGL is a convenient and easy way to access those terms safely. There's no good reason not to use it.

I think it's safe to say at this point that Pathfinder 2nd Edition isn't a variation of D&D 5E. It's more likely to be an evolution of the 3.x ruleset, diverging from the path WotC took significantly, but influenced by many game design evolutions across the industry in the last decade. I'm sure you'll be able to see some 5E DNA in it, mixed in with the DNA of various other things, but it looks like Pathfinder 2nd Edition is very different to WotC's current game.

I mentioned that I'd be surprised to see Pathfinder 2 using even a single word from the 5E SRD. Erik Mona confirmed this. "It doesn't. This thing is far less 5e-inspired than people are assuming based on the first day of information we've dropped and the use of some similar terminology."

I mentioned the question of backward compatibility yesterday. Paizo says "While many of the rules of the game have changed, much of what made Pathfinder great has remained the same. The story of the game is unchanged, and in many cases, you can simply replace the old rules with their new counterpart without having to alter anything else about the adventure. As for individual rules, like your favorite spell or monster, most can be added with a simple conversion, changing a few numbers and rebalancing some of the mechanics."
[FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT]
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Jacob Lewis

Ye Olde GM
I think Paizo has lot more talent (and self-respect) than to base their flagship product on something as predictable and uninspiring as 5e. Seriously, why would anyone want to put up a 5e knock off in a market that is saturated with customers who think 5e is already the bee's knees? If it is not significantly different from 5e, and from their own original model for that matter, then we have all underestimated them. I, however, do not feel that will be the case, for I am already liking what I've read so far.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I think Paizo has lot more talent (and self-respect) than to base their flagship product on something as predictable and uninspiring as 5e. Seriously, why would anyone want to put up a 5e knock off in a market that is saturated with customers who think 5e is already the bee's knees? If it is not significantly different from 5e, and from their own original model for that matter, then we have all underestimated them. I, however, do not feel that will be the case, for I am already liking what I've read so far.

Yeah, I like 5e and I still think it's ridiculous to assume PF2 is going to be a 5e knockoff. 5e fans already have 5e, and PF fans already don't want to play 5e, so making PF2 a 5e knockoff would be an absolutely terrible idea, and I'm pretty sure Paizo is well aware of that. What they need to do if they want PF2 to be successful is make it its own, unique product, not knocking off any version of D&D, but that stays true to the feel of Pathfinder. Refine and accentuate the parts of the game that make it uniquely Pathfinder, and prune the bits that are only there to make it more like D&D 3.5.

I'm excited, even as someone who never cared for PF1. Good for Paizo for continuing to evolve their game, and good on them for keeping PF1 available for those who end up preferring it over PF2. If WotC had shown 3.5 the same respect when they started making 4e instead of panning it like they did, we might not have a Pathfinder to be getting a 2nd edition of. Luckily for Paizo, they can learn from WotC's mistakes.
 

I do hope they use other editions as inspiration but then make their own thing.

I hope that involves dropping the hundreds of fiddly situational models and adopting advantage/disadvantage, but the that is probably heresy to pathfinder fans.
 


Phototoxin

Explorer
"Streamlined monster design" describes most any modern tabletop RPG. It's about as specific as "Written in the English language". It's certainly not evidence of being based on 5E.

It's not just RPGs, almost every tabletop wargame in the past few years has tried to spin itself as 'streamlined'. It's a trend in marketing language as much as anything. After all no one would buy something that was described as 'clunky and fiddley'
 

the more I hear the more apprehensive I get. Between shades of Starfinder, a system which to me has more cons than pros, the shades f 5E's oversimplification and the implied difficulty to convert new materials to PF1, I'm starting to get 4E flashbacks, I'm just really hoping that Paizo are more open to criticism of their established mechanics than they were in previous playtests.
 

It's not just RPGs, almost every tabletop wargame in the past few years has tried to spin itself as 'streamlined'. It's a trend in marketing language as much as anything. After all no one would buy something that was described as 'clunky and fiddley'

No but I'll take a complex and nuanced system with lost of options over the paint by numbers system of 4/5E.
 



But wasn't Pathfinder originally sold as a more streamlined version of 3.5?

It was like an old car that you had to turn the key a certain way and bang on tue dashboard to get started. Then, you had to have a slight roght turn on at all times as there was an eternal left drift. The left indicator worked fine, but the right indicator was operated by the washers. And you learned of you only moved the washer lever half way, you could get the indicator to flash wothout the wiper blades coming up.

It was complex and clunky, but by god when you learned it, it was yours :)
 

Remove ads

Latest threads

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Upcoming Releases

Top