D&D 5E COS - Spoilers! Need plot help.

Coroc said:

Seriously?

If you write a spoiler in your headline for tomb of horrors or against the giants, fine if you have to, as an attention getter. But even with this old stuff you should not, and I explain why.

Tbh there are not so many people, who are like you obviously, able to play every new content within months of publishing so for them the release date does not matter at all.
We got to work and do other things and maybe get a session 1ce per month and maybe we still are exited for some new stuff.


Even with old stuff it is bad habit: My group does not know many of the 2nd ed greyhawk stuff e.g. and I do use that for my campaign. I do not want them to read up any of it here although the danger is low.

You know there are different kind of readers, and I am one of the sort who does read blocks, means I trace a whole paragraph and do a detail reading of important things after that if I am in a hurry. And for people like me a spoiler warning in the headline is to late, even if spoilers start only in the third or fourth line.

So please do not use your measure to judge other people in their habits or wishes, you would not have the same being done to you. And besides, it is not that difficult to do your headline like "CoS plot questions (possible spoilers)". I am sure it does not keep people being interested in the topic from reading or answering your thread.

Click to expand...

First, I don't even run APs. Where did you get this idea I play every new publication that comes out?

Second, I didn't start the thread, and I didn't judge anything. I asked a simple question. You could have given a simple answer like "indefinitely" instead of jumping to some frankly outlandish conclusions. I would've respected your opinion even if I didn't agree with it.

Nevvur said:

First, I don't even run APs. Where did you get this idea I play every new publication that comes out?

Second, I didn't start the thread, and I didn't judge anything. I asked a simple question. You could have given a simple answer like "indefinitely" instead of jumping to some frankly outlandish conclusions. I would've respected your opinion even if I didn't agree with it.

Click to expand...

Wrong and wrong. I did not read this thread I just wrote a plea to not spoil in the headline, a thing which is plain and simple to do if you care not only for yourself.
I do not care if you play APs or do not, but I do care if I eventually want to. See, I canbe selfish also.

If my conclusions are outlandish to you, it might be that you are unable to understand my reasoning. In that case is explainable why you do not care for other people who wish not to be spoiled.

In posting another spoiler in your answer you prove my theory, you might eventually know that the hide button does unfortunately not work for e-mail notifications or if you reply to a thread with cite as I now do.

Such is childish behaviour, since only small children cannot differ between their own needs and the needs of other people.

[MENTION=6895991]Coroc[/MENTION]

1) The thread title doesn't spoil anything.
2) If you don't care whether or not I play APs, why did you bring it up?
3) You're right, I don't care about people who wish not to be spoiled 20 months after some content has debuted. If it's that important, they can take some personal responsibility in the matter.
4) Speaking of childish, there's that whole inability or unwillingness to take personal responsibility thing. I guess we're just a couple of kids being kids, eh?

I think we are trolling each other over a little etiquette thing and I want to stop hijacking this thread for this discussion now. You want to be right in your opinion , fine you are right in that I have to take responsibility. You want to convince me that spoiling in the headline is fun, you will never succeed in that.

I do not want to know if there are two characters named x or y which might join the group and might be left behind upfront, so I feel spoiled.

Tell me how do I scan the thread titles in a responsible way and avoid reading that headline?

Coroc said:

I think we are trolling each other over a little etiquette thing and I want to stop hijacking this thread for this discussion now. You want to be right in your opinion , fine you are right in that I have to take responsibility. You want to convince me that spoiling in the headline is fun, you will never succeed in that.

I do not want to know if there are two characters named x or y which might join the group and might be left behind upfront, so I feel spoiled.

Tell me how do I scan the thread titles in a responsible way and avoid reading that headline?

Click to expand...

Agreed, returning to civility...

Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts on the thread title. From my point of view, the names of two characters and a possible interaction with them doesn't represent something I would consider a spoiler. However, in the interest of stopping the thread derailment, I'll send the remainder of my remarks in a private message.

I apologize for lack of judgement, I considered the title before posting and did not consider it a spoiler.


G

Gwaihir said:

So, how do I play this?

Click to expand...

Depends on whether you want it to be a factor.

I used to run the original I6 every year around Halloween. I'd say the PCs only worried about Ireena about a quarter of the time. That's not to say they didn't care. They just generally figured she'd kind found someplace halfway safe -- safer than she'd be assaulting the castle with them -- and her best hope was for them to draw Strahd's fire, so to speak. I'm not sure it was always quite that well thought out, but sometimes it was and the behavior was pretty consistent with that concept. When I ran CoS, this year, the PCs often left Ismark to guard Ireena in some sort of "safe place" while they forayed out. It's a pretty valid strategy, especially considering that Ismark is something like a 9th level Fighter, which is much better than any of the PCs are, for about the first half of the adventure.

What are Strahd's goals? Is he playing cat-and-mouse with the party, per some of the plot ideas? Is he laser-focused on Ireena? He knows Ireena can't go anywhere, so there's a good argument for the former as a diversion, while the meat is still fresh. You could also play it that he's too hungry for Ireena to be bothered by the interlopers.

I don't know that Vallaki is a great place for Strahd to go after Ireena, anyway. There are too many "good guys" there. If you want to either fire a warning shot or give them an ally, have Strahd make a play for her but one of the other players in the area intervenes with a well-timed ritual or even just startles him.

When you get down to brass tacks, I've always taken the way the party deals with Ireena as an indicator of how interested they are in dealing with the "damsel in distress" motif. Sometimes, they just want to deal with the vampire. No sense in forcing Ireena on them.

Mercule said:

Depends on whether you want it to be a factor.

When you get down to brass tacks, I've always taken the way the party deals with Ireena as an indicator of how interested they are in dealing with the "damsel in distress" motif. Sometimes, they just want to deal with the vampire. No sense in forcing Ireena on them.

Click to expand...

This is very perceptive. Gives me food for thought. Thanks
G

The players in my run of CoS were very concerned for Ireena. They screwed up the scene at the shrine, and wound up actually leaving her in the protection of the knights at the keep. Which took some negotiating, especially when they tried to collect her again later. And Strahd went after her there anyway.

Honestly, I was hoping I could finesse a scene where Strahd's attempt to get her away from the knights and the PCs would result in her accidental, tragic death (while making it clear that it was his fault), as appropriate for all the targets of Strahd's interest. But alas, the situation did not arise.

My players originally were torn between leaving Ireena in the chapel in Valaki or to risk taking her to the Monastery where I originally pitched it as "safer" but at the cost of risking the open road to Krezk. They chose to do the latter, and were inevitably betrayed by the Abbot, after a night long siege with all of Strahd's forces and their first encounter with him, resulting in them choosing to let Strahd take Ireena in the hopes of saving her later at the castle (remember Strahd is a gentleman and very traditionalist, and likes to play with his food, he's not the type for a quick bite. He wants to break the players spirit through Ireena.)

For helping you, it sort of depends on a couple things:
1) Who is the player's fated companion? For mine it was Ismark, so killing and vampiring him would've have been as good an option.
2) Have you introduced Fiona Wachter, and if so, how have you handled her? The same with Izek and the Burgomaster of Vallaki?

Either one of these people will chose the "safety" of the village over the lives of some random outsiders and the adopted daughter of a dead Burgomaster of another town, one which the Burgomaster in his madness, or Fiona, a known Strahd loyalist (and master manipulator) would likely spread the false belief the town of Barovia is all but fallen to Strahd anyway, and attempt to turn her in to Strahd to save their town if push comes to shove.

In my game, for example, had the players kept Ireena in the chapel (a sacred place Strahd and his spawn can't enter, Strahd would have instead started sieging the town itself, sending spawn in the streets at night with bats, wolves and werewolves would be constantly outside the walls testing and prodding at defenses, steadily applying pressure and fear to the townsfolk. At the time, my players had not yet cured the Burgomaster of his madness, and I had already introduced Fiona and Izek as characters; I took a paige out of Dice, Camera, Action and made the Tiefling player Izek's sister and Fiona both their Aunt, though if you used what the book had, Izek is going to want to "save" Ireena himself by "keeping her safe" in the Burgomaster's home, and given his personality no way is he going to listen to some fool of a spellcaster pc telling him the church is safer, especially after Fiona starts publicly announcing to the entire town that Strahd's armies are here, and the only way to make them leave is to turn over this one girl named Ireena to them! ...by the time Strahd arrives it isn't just the players against him. It's the players vs the entire damn town!

At the point if you really wish to be mean (especially if he is the fated companion), have Ismark have been charmed by Strahd, and help hand over his very sister. He doesn't even need to be a vampire to hit the players emotional (and himself, imagine how he'd feel when the charm wore off and he failed his one job?!). My Ismark, for example, literally broke down and colapsed to his knees in tears at his impotence in front of the party and Strahd while the paladin sworn to protect her went berserk and lost to Strahd one on one while the party watched. It was quite the emotional session.

Anyway, hopefully that helps. The just of it is that I would suggest using the NPCs to drive the story forward. You could go forward with the Ismark being turned and Ireena being taken, but I'd find a way to specify how it happened. Why did she leave the church, etc.?