D&D 5E Attunement

KarinsDad · Aug 7, 2015

Hussar said:
While I agree with the total number of items likely found KD, I'm not sure i agree with your assumption of the spread of items. Yes, strictly by the list, you might be right, but, let's be honest, there are a number of items that parties will find, like +1 Weapons or +1 Shields, which are likely going to be a lot more commonly placed by DM's than, say, Eyes of the Eagle. I'd say it's a pretty rare DM who strictly randomly generated magic items and never deviates from die rolls.

After all, it's common to put magic items on "Boss" monsters, which will tend to be weapons, armour or the like. I'm going by personal experience here, which, I realise is not broadly applicable, but, in our 5e Dragonlance campaign, which has now hit about 9th level, we have only a couple attunement items and our LMoP campaign which, is 3rd level, and has found exactly 1 (the glass staff) attunement item. I'm not sure where you are getting all these attunement items from LMoP. We certainly never found them. Granted, I'm a player in both campaigns, so, maybe we missed a lot, but, I don't think so.

Summoning [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION] for commentary on Lost Mines of Phandelver.

If you reread my post, I was also talking about total magic items (i.e. 1 magic item per level), not just attunement ones. I just used the attunment DMG ratio to illustrate the point. In LMoP, there are something like 10 non-consumable items in a module that is designed to go to level 5. That's more than one per level per 4 PC group (where 4 items should be found gaining 4 levels).

+1 Longsword
Staff of Defense
Ring Protection
+1 Battleaxe
Boots of Striding and Springing
Spider Staff
Gauntlets of Ogre Power
+1 Mace “Lightbringer”
+1 Breastplate “Dragonguard”
Wand of Magic Missiles

I suspect that many tables that use LMoP will have quite a few of these items in a party if the DM plays the module straight up.

Btw, I agree with you on the boss item thing. I do that all of the time as a DM.

But in our 6th level campaign, there are easily 10+ attunement items in the group of 7 PCs, and probably 15 or more non-consumable magic items total. Everyone has at least one and most have two and some have three. Some because the previous DM handed out quite a few magic items, some because of modules like LMoP (where I as DM handed out Lightbring and Dragonguard because I thought they were cool). I only DMed just shy of 2 levels and I handed out about 5 or 6 magic items in that time frame (about 10 gaming sessions).

Hussar · Aug 7, 2015

Ok. You have 10+ attunement items out of 7 pcs by 6th level. That means about 35 by 20th. Very high IMO but ok. That's still 5 per PC. So they give up two items by 20th level.

What's the problem? There's likely a lot of overlap with so many items anyway. You sell off the extra two items and you're good to go.

Two items over twenty levels hardly seems a big deal.

Or, better yet, lay off a few attunement items and the problem solves itself.

Even with two items per group per level, which, by your numbers, one should be at attuneable that's still only 5 per PC by 20th level. Dropping that item you found at 1st level when you are 16th level doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

KarinsDad · Aug 7, 2015

Hussar said:
Ok. You have 10+ attunement items out of 7 pcs by 6th level. That means about 35 by 20th. Very high IMO but ok. That's still 5 per PC. So they give up two items by 20th level.

What's the problem? There's likely a lot of overlap with so many items anyway. You sell off the extra two items and you're good to go.

Two items over twenty levels hardly seems a big deal.

Or, better yet, lay off a few attunement items and the problem solves itself.

Even with two items per group per level, which, by your numbers, one should be at attuneable that's still only 5 per PC by 20th level. Dropping that item you found at 1st level when you are 16th level doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

While one could do this, the attunement items do appear to be the more powerful items and they also are the most prevalent. It's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot from a roleplaying and storytelling perspective (i.e. fun perspective). It's totally design intended to prevent perceived mechanics/balance problems that may or may not be real and has nothing to do with roleplaying or storytelling.

Fighter: "Sorry, the gods have declared that I cannot have these 4 magic items at the same time. Not sure why.".

MerricB · Aug 7, 2015

KarinsDad said:
Fighter: "Sorry, the gods have declared that I cannot have these 4 magic items at the same time. Not sure why.".

"Sorry, the gods have declared that I only have two hands. Not sure why."

KarinsDad · Aug 7, 2015

MerricB said:
"Sorry, the gods have declared that I only have two hands. Not sure why."

Still stupid metagame rules.

MerricB · Aug 7, 2015

KarinsDad said:
Still stupid metagame rules.

In AD&D, you could only have one ring on each hand.

In 3E, most bonuses had types that didn't stack with each other.

In AD&D, human magic-users couldn't cast in armour.

D&D is full of metagame rules. It always has been.

Hussar · Aug 7, 2015

[MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION], from your numbers, you should have given your group about 23 non-consumable Magic items by 6th level. That's a lot of magic items.

KarinsDad · Aug 7, 2015

MerricB said:
In AD&D, you could only have one ring on each hand.

In 3E, most bonuses had types that didn't stack with each other.

In AD&D, human magic-users couldn't cast in armour.

D&D is full of metagame rules. It always has been.

While what you say is true, the game has been evolving to become better.

This is a rule designed to adjust how the game is played at tables and has nothing to do with making the game better. It's just an arbitrary line drawn in the sand in an attempt to prevent a Christmas tree problem that may or may not exist at any given table. It's an attempt to get the entire D&D gaming community to "play in a certain way". It has nothing to do with balance between races or classes (like your human wizard example), or to balance spells / supernatural abilities (like your 3E type example).

It is similar to your ring example in that it is number of magic items per PC related, but instead of allowing a given DM to decide (and granted, I know that any DM can houserule any core rule that s/he does not like), it thrusts a limit on the entire gaming community as the status quo.

5E could have come out without any attunement rules at all and the game would have just been fine. They are not necessary (and for me as a DM, not wanted). They just take up space in the rules for no good reason. IMO. A dumb metarule with no valid reason for its existence.

KarinsDad · Aug 7, 2015

Hussar said:
[MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION], from your numbers, you should have given your group about 23 non-consumable Magic items by 6th level. That's a lot of magic items.

What numbers are you talking about?

Hussar · Aug 7, 2015

KarinsDad said:
What numbers are you talking about?

You said that about half of items are attunement items. I'm presuming that that holds true in your game. Which should mean that you've given out about 22-24 items in 6 levels, not counting consumables.

Not exceedingly high. It's about what Phandelver would give if it was designed for 6 or 7 PC's. But then you said that LMoP is already on the high side.

I wonder about the adventure paths. Are people seeing large numbers of magic items and having this problem?

D&D 5E Attunement

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MerricB

Eternal Optimist

KarinsDad

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MerricB

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KarinsDad

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KarinsDad

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Hussar

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