D&D 5E Z's Multi classing Thoughts

Zardnaar said:

Skill monkey build with a decent cantrip for damage+sneak attack on a skirmisher is fine IMHO.

"You don't need the highest damage in the world just don't crater it"

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Two follow up questions: what would you consider poor damage?

I struggle with the gish because it seems that to be an effective warrior a lot of your magical resources have to be focused on that, meaning that a lot of the flexibility and utility of being a caster can be lost. If you go for high utility however, you can end up being mediocre at everything

Zardnaar said:

Another reason to MC is to get better saving throws. Some saves in the game are not very good for example a wizard and Rogue saves are sub par IMHO. Picking up con saves can be worth a dip as well for spellcasters.

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I don’t see it anywhere in the PHB multiclassing section that you gain the saves of your new class, only those proficiencies which are specifically called out in the multiclassing table.

As also answered by Crawford: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/08/11/multiclassing-proficiencies/

This would make a good guide to multiclassing for people starting out, good work.

Salthorae said:

I don’t see it anywhere in the PHB multiclassing section that you gain the saves of your new class, only those proficiencies which are specifically called out in the multiclassing table.

As also answered by Crawford: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/08/11/multiclassing-proficiencies/

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Pretty sure OP means doing a 1st level starter dip in classes like Fighter or Sorcerer so you start with the super important Con save for a caster.

Ahh, not how I read that, but a totally plausible reading! Thanks!

Ancalagon said:

Two follow up questions: what would you consider poor damage?

I struggle with the gish because it seems that to be an effective warrior a lot of your magical resources have to be focused on that, meaning that a lot of the flexibility and utility of being a caster can be lost. If you go for high utility however, you can end up being mediocre at everything

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A class with a single attack (maybe 2) that has no class feature to boost that damage. Example Druid, Valor Bard.

Fighters for example get action surge+ a weapon style so even a longsword+duelist style is dealing what I consider moderate damage. high damage is something like a 2 handed weapon with extra damage on top (hunter ranger, hex, action surge etc). Very high damage is same as high damage with the -5/+10 feats kicking in or a mid to high level Sorlock.

Sword and board+sentinel feat+duelist+ hex/hunters quarry can also get into the high damage territory just requires a bit more work.

I would have 5 tiers of damage.

Very low damage. Simple weapon no extra damage (wizards, Druids)
Low damage. 1d8 or so no exra damage (valor bards)
Moderate dmaage. Two handed weapon or 1d8+ a bit extra (duelist, 1d6 spell, colussus slayer)
High Damage two handed weapon+ extra or 1d8+ 2 or 3 extra damage sources
Very High Damage best in game (extra damage+ -5/+10 feats or Sorlock).

Extra damage can be a flat modifier, extra attack, sneak attack, extra dice. A Monk for example deals moderate to high damage as they get that bonus extra attack and can flurry. Level 1 Monk for example can deal 1d8+3 with a Staff or spear+ an extra 1d4+3 which puts it in the two handed+ a bit extra damage range.

An arcane cleric using a simple weapon with greenflame blade and an active spirit guardians can get up there in damage.

The swords bard hexblade can do dueling style, Cha to damage (less MAD), maneuver damage and hex.

... But I'm not sure Hex is the best use of concentration, when there are things like fairy fire, heat metal or fear...

[MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION] -curious how I always think of you as Zardinaar- I like your thoughts on multiclassing. I just want to add, that Sorcerer/Lore Bard (likely Bard4/Sorcerer3+) is just plain good as a support/control caster, only Divine Soul comes close, but having less spells hurts it a little. Tons of spells known and tons of cantrips to play around. I prefer to start Sorcerer(for the CON proficiency), then switch to bard until bard 4, then switch back until you get metamagic. From 7th level onwards you have light armor, an extra skill, a diverse spell pool to choose from (and a bunch of spells known to choose with). You are not that good with bardic inspiration, but you pack quite the utility and have access to silence/subtle spell and Twin Spell shenanigans.

Also the extra subclasses in Xanathar bridge the thematic gap between the cha casters. Celestial Patron Warlock is just begging to be mixed with Paladin and Divine Soul Sorcerer, and Shadow Sorcerer fits quite well with Fey and Fiend Patron Warlock.

Another fun way to do a bladelock is to take levels in the Swashbuckler Rogue. The subclass's sneak attack, +Cha to Initiative, and the 9th level feature (whose name I forget off the top of my head) pairs well with a warlock who has an interest in finesse weapons. Exactly how many levels in each depends on how much you care about your spellcasting capabilities vs your ability to deal damage with your blade, but even just three levels in Swash can make a bladelock not feel like they're wasting their time using their blade.

For the Ranger 5/Rogue x combination:

Two Ranger archetypes jn XGTE offer comparable benefits up to level 5:

Horizon Walker makes all damage from a sneak attack become Force damage, with +1d8. It uses up a Bonus Action (generally bad for Rogues; and needs to be within 30'), but only for the first round the creature is attacked.

Monster Slayer adds +1d6, and also uses up a bonus action for the first round, but does so at a range of 60'.

Both are comparable, and don't require the target already to be injured, which is the case with Hunter (Colossus Slayer).