D&D 5E Powergamer Cleric= Variant Human?

gyor · Jun 28, 2019

Honestly I think the 5e Cleric is way more interesting and fun to play then the old school clerics.

Mistwell · Jun 28, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Extra dice of damage. Your hill dwarf misses the bonus feat.

You used the bonus feat to get essentially the thing they already have.

Your forge cleric can be a human, same stats that matter, moves faster, and knows more cantrips and moves faster.

One less bonus stat, and they move at the same speed because you're wearing heavy armor, remember?

Assuming both clerics are forge clerics. 14 Dex is a bit more useful than 14 strength assuming you are not starting with 13 str (Dwarf has 14 str, 16 Wis, 15 con?). The human would have 16 Wis 14 Dex/con.

For melee using heavy armor and a shield? Naw, strength is the better stat there. But you could start with 13 str if you want, since they don't get harmed by heavy armor even without it.

Again, Treantmonk has already outlined the entire Forge Cleric build from level 1 to 20. I think it beats yours hands down.

Zardnaar · Jun 29, 2019

Mistwell said:
You used the bonus feat to get essentially the thing they already have.

One less bonus stat, and they move at the same speed because you're wearing heavy armor, remember?

For melee using heavy armor and a shield? Naw, strength is the better stat there. But you could start with 13 str if you want, since they don't get harmed by heavy armor even without it.

Again, Treantmonk has already outlined the entire Forge Cleric build from level 1 to 20. I think it beats yours hands down.

No the shillagh cleric is in medium armor packing a 14 dex/con and maxing wisdom. The hill Dwarf will have +1 AC, the human gets 5' movement bonus.

Treantmonks optimisation guides have been outright wrong before as well. I focus more on level 1-10 as well, level 11+ is mostly theory craft. If you take magic initiate level 1 you'r packing a 16 in your primew stat and melee stat and gain an extra level 1 spell (very useful at level 1) and 2 extra cantrips (1 really, you're taking shillagh).

This works for every cleric there is as well. BTW I like forge clerics a lot the only thing that is iffy is the bonus damge level 8 and 14 as I regard fire damage as the weakest type of damage to deal followed by poison. Radiant, untyped and force is at the other end.

I suppose if you're going all the way to 20 the cleric can end up with 16 dex and medium armor master and have the same AC as the heavy armor cleric and be a lot better at stealth (16 dex, prob trained in it via back ground, no penalty on stealth rolls in medium armor).

Do you concede that dex is better for saves and skills than strength?

Zardnaar · Jun 29, 2019

FrogReaver said:
you have some odd ideas about optimization

Hexblade MC with Paladin, key everythign off charisma, probably take agonizing blast be good at ranged, melee, charisma to saving throws etc. All attack and saves would key off charisma.

Dex based Paladin its also gonna take a while to get your dex up for your AC to be good, strength based Paladin is looking at AC 18-20 range.

Mistwell · Jun 29, 2019

Zardnaar said:
No the shillagh cleric is in medium armor packing a 14 dex/con and maxing wisdom. The hill Dwarf will have +1 AC, the human gets 5' movement bonus.

Treantmonks optimisation guides have been outright wrong before as well. I focus more on level 1-10 as well, level 11+ is mostly theory craft.

1. It's not shillagh. It's shillelagh. Pronounced Shil Lay Lee.

2. It's a video. Which you have not even watched. But you're dismissing it without watching. Which puts us at a standstill as you're hand waiving my rebuttal without seeing it. You should watch it and then reply.

Zardnaar · Jun 29, 2019

Did you post the link earlier? I may have been at work and I can't exactly whip out the phone and watch it due to boss.

Garthanos · Jun 29, 2019

gyor said:
Honestly I think the 5e Cleric is way more interesting and fun to play then the old school clerics.

When they introduced Priests of Specific Gods (someone will tell us when I am sure) I started to find the flavor improved.

Garthanos · Jun 29, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
Sure, we didn't call 'em Band-aids because they organized benefit concerts. But turning also made the cleric obligatory - modules, for instance, assumed you'd have one, so undead encounters were scaled appropriately.

Preferred demons/daemons to undead anyway and wasnt much a fan of modules in fact they seemed really pointless and disconnected from the characters

Zardnaar · Jun 29, 2019

Garthanos said:
When they introduced Priests of Specific Gods (someone will tell us when I am sure) I started to find the flavor improved.

1E Dragon article iirc but 2E made it official.

The Greyhawk and FR specialty priests were the apex of interesting priests/clerics. 5E wins on balance but 2E for interesting/unique stuff as each priest often had unique spell lists.

5ekyu · Jun 29, 2019

Istbor said:
I mean... I see a lot of Clerics. Two of them currently in my home group. Tempest and War. Both are pretty happy with their characters.
I am not sure I have seen a 5e group yet without a Cleric.

My first 5e game had two clerics.

My current has none - but has druid, two bards, ranger and barbarian so... they kinda (over?)covered that in other ways.