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Recent content by clearstream

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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    The line as I see it could be developed to dismiss persuasion (say) as a distinct game mechanic. If so, that's cunning. As you suspected, I didn't feel it added anything. On the one hand it leaves the circularity argument untouched, and on the other hand all that's required is that persuasion...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    I get the feeling from a few posters that they would like to downplay skills as any kind of defined game mechanic as much as possible. I hope you can see why from my side of things that could appear to be constructive. To make your position clear then, are you saying that say an expert in...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    It has merit, but doesn't settle the specificity and circularity arguments. There's no formal test for specific enough. Even if there were, your arguments remain circular in my view. That's unfortunate, I know :(
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    I understand what you mean, but in the vernacular players regularly use "skill" as shorthand for a defined aspect of an ability: a set of ways they can ordinarily expect to be able to use that ability, that have been defined to a greater or lesser extent, often with examples, by the game...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    If there is no threat, a DM might decide not to call for a check. Right? Generally though, to my reading everyone is okay with there being game mechanics that do decide what a player character thinks, says, or does. All or almost all are okay with PC ability checks deciding what NPCs think, say...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    Maybe it is that when thinking about these rules, one can intrude quite far into RP so long as stopping short of deciding what the player thinks. It's an interesting situation, as if the metaphysical arrangement is of the player as character soul.
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    D&D 5E 50th Anniversary and beyond

    One should never wish one's life away, but I say roll on 2024. I am looking forward to it with mild apprehension, but not for any of the reasons you list. I'm far more concerned to see a really great piece of design around rests, and some careful rethinking of some skills. Also concentration...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    If we say - you have no reason to suppose this is not Lord Frogmouth - we are saying what they think (i.e. that they have no reason to suppose.) It may be up to the player to decide, but at this point we have already decided what their character thinks (that there is no reason to suppose.)
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    Holy quibbles. I view this (belief in the disguise) as something the PC thinks. They think (erroneously) that this is Lord Frogmouth.
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    For sure. These balance concerns you raise are weighty and valuable. They need addressing. Looking back on the conversation, I suddenly realise that I had in the back of my mind that other posters would say something like - yes, for the sake of argument and apposite the OP - let's think about...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    Another case might be where say Lord Frogmouth promises some payment, but is planning to default on it. The PCs think the promise is good.
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    It can decide what they think for example, they think that a disguised NPC is Lord Frogmouth. And so on.
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    We come back to an earlier point. Game mechanics regularly intrude on what players can decide their characters do. There have been arguments in this thread seeking to show that RAW doesn't allow that. Set that aside for a moment and ask instead: what is the moral difference between say...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    So while we've been debating, I've been thinking how to draft a possibly more usable version of 5th edition persuasion. I've been thinking of how to leave significant facets of RP up to players/DM, while letting the mechanics decide on details. So this is the core rule: it's not complete at...
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    D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

    Exactly, and that's another reason why I quite like to lean into skills. A player can say - I want to pretend to spill - and we can resolve that by drawing upon the mechanics in a way that is fair, and respects choices they made for their character. PC's Constitution (Deception) against NPC's...
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