D&D 5E Is Anyone Using Variant Encumbrance?

Chocolategravy said:

The average soldier would have a 10 STR.

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Why? The average *human* might have Str 10, but soldiers, by the very definition of their jobs, undergo training that, at the very least, builds up strength and endurance. I'd say the average soldier has Str 12 or 13. This soldier can carry up to 60 pounds before having his speed reduced to 20 feet, and he can carry up to 120 pounds before reducing his speed to 10 feet and having disadvantage in combat. Which are completely in line with the US Army numbers given abovethread.

Most examples in this thread are pointing to Dex-based fighters as being unable to carry their equipment... which is *precisely* the downside of being a Dex-based fighter! Such a character should be going from Chain Shirt to Breastplate (20 pounds), knowing that Scale Mail would slow them down (45 pounds).

DMMike said:

Get them a wagon, and the rations weight becomes a non-issue.

Tavern-checkbook-balancing can actually be a good thing, though. It creates the possibility that the burly, male, PC fighter reaches for his coin pouch and comes up short. Then, the lovely barmaid (wench?) mysteriously pulls an emerald out of her smock, flashes it, and says "I'll pay for you tonight, sir." Or worse, the rival mercenary at the end of the bar does the same thing, but says "now you owe me."

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They have gone through several mules, I like to send the party to places a wagon cannot reach. the largest issue has been with the weight of food and water. They routinely trek through wilderness for up to a week and find it a task to provision themselves adequately.

secondhander said:

Have you tried just not worrying about the weight of coins, and just keeping track of the weight of other things? That might solve some of the over-complexity while still bringing in the rules of carrying capacity.

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DMMike said:

Sure, that'll work. But you'll inevitably run into the Final Fantasy moment when PCs say, "okay, let's go shopping. I wonder if we have enough...293,000 Gil!?"

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That was exactly my point DMMike, if they are already overloaded with coin (i use 50 coin per pound) they need to find something to do with it or some place safe to keep it before they go adventuring for more. I did add a rule that worn armor didn't add to encumbrance if you were proficient with it (the logic being that they are both conditioned to it and proficient at wearing it properly, distributing it weight) which did allow the party to carry more.

DMMike said:

Hey, D&D! Can we get an optional rule for this guy? Equipment slots: you get exactly X, Y, and Z to fill, and you don't have to worry about encumbrance. Nor can you carry more than that.

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That's how I'm thinking about doing it, next time I get to run a game. Just a little form to print and fill out. ...be just like some of the video games I've liked.

Of course, I also like the Dungeon World method of having "ammo slots" for your packpack o' junk and rations...when in you pull out those Iron Spikes, mark off a slot. Same for the rope, torch, etc. It might make sense to add some kind of Wisdom or Intelligence check to avoid expending a slot. That would be a bit of a change, though.

I mostly just ignore encumbrance, but have used this before and my players liked it.
http://rottenpulp.blogspot.com/2012/06/matt-rundles-anti-hammerspace-item.html

This has been an interesting thread, with a lot of good ideas and suggestions, and many different perspectives have been presented. Here are few more variants to think about:

1) Use Passive Strength(Athletics) instead of straight STR to determine maximum lift/carry and encumbrance values. This flattens the curve at the low end (low STR is not penalized quite so harshly), and adds some utility to the Athletics skill - which, outside of Grappling, really needs some love. All the true (arguably) fighting classes have access to it. A DEX based melee character can pick up the skill and still tank their STR. Characters who have invested in STR and Athletics will be rewarded for their investment. As some have noted, professional weight lifters can lift more than the current rules account for, by adding proficiency to that mix, you can better represent the skill that these athletes possess.

2) Regardless of how you determine maximum Encumbrance, use CON to determine encumbrance categories (CON x5 for encumbered, CON x10 for heavily encumbered). If you really want to get crazy, use Passive Constitution(Athletics) to determine encumbered and heavily encumbered status. Any character concerned with wearing heavier armor should have already invested in CON, so this shouldn't add to MAD(multiple attribute dependency). Additionally, encumbrance represents an act of stamina and endurance much more than a feat of strength, so CON might make more sense for determining the effects. This allows soldiers who are trained and conditioned to carry heavy packs to do so, especially if you use Passive Constitution(Athletics).

Thoughts?

I'd use Athletics (con) to determine how long a character could carry a weight of X before he suffered (more) negative effects. Not sure how to implement it, though. We see from the excerpt about the soldiers in Louisiana that after a certain period of time, they lost effectiveness. Their weight didn't increase, but their continued carrying of large amounts eventually caught up with them. Maybe say that after X time a character needs to make a Constitution saving throw of Y to avoid any further effects.

This could give a low Strength high Constitution character the ability to carry a smaller amount of weight but do it for a very long time. I just don't know where I'd set the limits, though.

Game of Thrones' "The Mountain" has a 47 STR according to D&D lifting rules! http://grapevine.is/news/2015/02/02/hafthor-julius-breaks-1000-year-old-lifting-record/ That gives him a +18 damage on his punch. Better not make him angry.

Chocolategravy said:

Game of Thrones' "The Mountain" has a 47 STR according to D&D lifting rules! http://grapevine.is/news/2015/02/02/hafthor-julius-breaks-1000-year-old-lifting-record/ That gives him a +18 damage on his punch. Better not make him angry.

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Or his DM just assigned a high Strength DC to check if he could lift far more than his carrying capacity and walk 5 steps.

Klaus said:

Or his DM just assigned a high Strength DC to check if he could lift far more than his carrying capacity and walk 5 steps.

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Isn't it weird to call your god a DM? It sort of implies that you're stuck in a dungeon.

Chocolategravy said:

The average soldier would have a 10 STR. 10 STR can lift 300 pounds which is probably more than many soldiers can.

With the x5/x10 rule a 100 load would slow them down to the point they could barely walk (-20 movement). They couldn't even then pick something up that weighs over 50 pounds as 150 pounds is the maximum and they can barely stagger at that point with 151 to 300 pounds being equally debilitating.

So the rule really isn't working for soldiers, not at all.

Now try with a pro wrestler or MMA fighter, most of these guys would have a 16 STR and many are up around 300 pounds themselves. Even some of the strongest of them with an 18 STR would barely be able to move if they pick up another wrestler as 180 pounds is the point where they can barely stagger around with them when in reality 180 pounds is pretty much trivial for them to handle.

So again, the rule really isn't working for strong guys either. It's even worse if you consider worn weight is far less debilitating then carried.

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10 STR is human average, not soldier average (at least not 20th century soldier). Most soldiers today, given the physical fitness regimen, would range in the 12-16 range, with a few truly exceptional standouts (18). However, even at 12 STR, a soldier is encumbered at a 60-119lb load. I'll attest to that that being true, having experienced it. You are slower. (See previous quote from JRTC).

Heavily encumbered comes at 120lbs+. Try doing the fireman's carry with a regular-sized male (178lbs in NA). You are much slower, and you get tired quicker (again, personal experience talking here). Carrying that weight for just 50 yards really wears you out.

I'd say, for a non-simulation game, the encumbrance rules come close to mirroring real life. The question is, how much do DMs and players want to worry about that?