D&D 5E Curse of Strahd help

pukunui

Legend
I think it's perfectly in character for him. "If they're not coming here to play I'll play with them outside and force them to come"
Good point. They keep ignoring his hints. Next time they take a path that doesn't lead to the castle, I'll have Strahd show up personally and attack them in an attempt to drive them back towards the castle.

(Some of my players can't seem to help themselves when it comes to metagaming about levels and not being "ready" yet to face Strahd in the castle and such.)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

hastur_nz

First Post
I dunno, attempting to put myself in Strahd's shoes, I'd say the PC's latest moves are quite interesting, he'd like to see just how murderous and hence 'evil' these guys can be; they killed a burgomaster because ... what ... he was a bit weird? Because it's D&D and you kill things and take their stuff? The new village ruler is a whole lot more weird... so it sounds like they are going to kill her off too... Then what, who's going to help protect the villagers from Strahd and his minions?

Crikey, they might end up totally corrupted and pawns of Strahd's evil plans, why should he kill them off now, just when they are showing some real promise (from his point of view).

Personally, I'd try and show them the logical results of their ways (killing burgomasters and such) - Strahd's minions need to kill countless villagers, then Strahd can come and turn some into vampire spawn, congratulating them on helping him, tempting them to join and help him even more, then mocking the PC's if they try and help the villagers, etc. Or if the PC's do not help, villagers get angry at them and (quite rightly) blame the PC's for bringing on all this trouble - what do the PC's do then, kill all the villagers? That would be funny... Strahd might get angry enough then, to bring the fight on, because they have just killed off a lot of his food supply.

But remember that Strahd isn't especially tough outside of his Lair - if the players really don't want to fight him until they have meta-gamed their way to full power, personally I'd say it's no big deal, have him do what he can to mock their actions prior to the castle, and help show them that actions have repercussions. When they finally do get to the castle make sure that Strahd doesn't wait in his 'allotted space' as per the reading, but he seeks them out at least once and ambushes them... That's where he has the clear upper hand; if they do manage to beat him he should still escape and re-form; if he beats them, he can quite justifiably not TPK because that would be boring and he hasn't had a good fight for ages, have him play with them as much as possible before the final show-down.
 

pukunui

Legend
[MENTION=40592]hastur_nz[/MENTION]: I'm not sure. I feel like the escape of Tatyana's soul is a real game-changer. The PCs have removed the one thing that Strahd wants more than anything else. And yet, while he does lash out and try to electrocute anyone in the pool at the time, his next move is just to send the PCs an invite to his castle ... which suggests that he quickly regains his composure and is willing to wait for the PCs to come to him, rather than seeking them out and killing them on the spot. Even so, I reckon he's done toying with them. He wants to wipe them off the map for helping Tatyana's soul escape his clutches for good.

With that in mind, I imagine he also isn't that keen on letting them continue to gallivant around the countryside, giving the peasants hope and gaining more power in the process. He wants them to come to the castle ASAP so he can have his fun with them before killing them all.


As for the situation in Vallaki, it's all very uncertain. I don't know what will happen if/when the PCs kill Lady Wachter. Would the Martikovs take over? Would Strahd let them, or would he send his vampire spawn to drive them out of town? Would he install some other puppet instead? Perhaps he sends one of his spawn, like Escher, to take over. I don't really know, but I suppose I'll need to come up with some ideas before the next session.

Since Strahd's arrival at Wachterhaus interrupted their thoughts of assassination, I'm contemplating having Strahd give Lady Wachter the means to summon a more powerful devil than an imp. If she gets properly entrenched in power, she might start summoning up some barbed devils to help "protect" the town or something. (My players might not enjoy that, though, since a similar thing went down in The Speaker In Dreams, a 5e conversion of which I ran for them in the previous campaign.) I might just have Strahd assign his vampire spawn (the ones from the coffinmaker's shop) as her elite secret police or personal bodyguard or something.


Nobody knows how the burgomaster died, by the way. The mystic killed him with a thought spear. As far as all the witnesses are concerned, Baron Vargas died from fear and/or stress brought on by the knowledge that a lynch mob was coming for him ... Now Strahd is smart enough to know that the PCs probably had something to do with his death. He may want to get the mystic aside for a little one-on-one chat to find out just how he did it ...


Would it make sense for Strahd to visit the baron's widow, Lydia, and turn her into one of his vampire spawn? Lady Wachter has allowed her to live out the rest of her days in the burgomaster's mansion, although she is planning on stealing Lydia's magic mirror. (She asked the PCs to look for it for her. They found it when they found the wedding dress, but they just put a blanket over it and left it there.)
 
Last edited:

texastoast

Explorer
A question occurred to me when I was reading through the thread about PCs' reasons for working together, alignment compatibility, and so on. This may be a "you know your players better than we do" question, particularly since they're my family, but I wanted to throw it out there.

When Strahd visited the party the first time and chatted with them menacingly for a little while, he told them that he's watching them to see if any of them have what it takes to replace him (or something to that effect). My 10-year-old, playing a nominally NG ranger, said, "I'll do it! I want to do that!" The other party members, his mom and older brother, basically shot him down. It was unclear if they were acting in character trying to discourage him from something evil, or acting as their sometimes bossy selves telling him that he would mess up the game if he did that. I didn't think on my feet quickly enough to sort that out, as it caught me by surprise and I was focused on executing the conversation from Strahd's end.

Since then, the 10-year-old has largely lost interest in D&D; it may be that he's just not interested in an abstract, imagination game like this, but I think if he could discover that he can have a degree of agency and power in the game that he lacks in real life as the youngest in the house, he might come around. So I'm thinking about finding an opportunity to have a private session with him where Strahd pays him a visit, follows up on his "I want to do that," and suggests that he do some work on Strahd's behalf to prove his bona fides. I'm thinking things like keeping tabs on Ireena to eventually put her in a position where Strahd can take her; helping in some way with the Wintersplinter ritual/attack/etc.; once they begin finding the fated relics, sneaking them away so Strahd can reclaim them; and generally undermining the party's efforts to bring some happiness and security to the realm.

On one hand, this may be too subtle an ask for a 10-year-old, and it may be too morally fraught for him to handle. I don't want to actively sow discord between him and the rest of his family. But on the other hand, it's just a game, and if I model by my reactions as dad and DM that the kid isn't doing anything wrong just because his character is doing bad things, it doesn't have to cause conflict among the players even if it leads to conflict among the characters. And giving him a goal for his character to pursue, based on his own choices, may empower and enthuse the 10-year-old. So what does anybody think? Am I playing too much with fire going down this path, or are the stakes low enough and the situation manageable enough that it's worth it for the fun it could create?
 

hastur_nz

First Post
[MENTION=54629]pukunui[/MENTION] The adventure has never made it clear why Strahd allows the Burgomasters to 'rule' their towns/villages - does he fear the collective capabilities of an organised town, or does he need someone to keep the 'common folk' in a nice central place for him to feed on? Answer that, and I think options become clearer.

For example, if Strahd truly feared the burgomaster in Vallaki, now with Lady Wachter in charge, it makes some sense for him to work with her more, or at least for her to try to work with Strahd (her idol), but is his aim really to kill everyone in the village? If he needs a burgomaster to help keep the people 'placated', then he'll no doubt keep an eye on things, but unless it gets out of hand I expect he'd find it amusing, but not especially important in the scheme of things. Lydia as a vampire spawn is a good idea, but keep that behind the scenes until the PC's see her in the castle - at most, they might find she's disappeared a few days later.

Personally, I would let the PC's kill Lady Wachter, if they really want to, rather than beef her up just because they murdered the 'nice guy' burgomaster for no apparent / logical reason. Murderous PC's don't need escalating threats, they need genuine complications that make them consider if they really are doing the 'right thing', whatever that means (especially in Barovia).

If you think that Strahd is really annoyed and wants the PC's to challenge him not just skulk around doing whatever they want, which sounds entirely reasonable, then I think stir things up, and not just from Strahd. Keep in mind that Srahd and Lady Wachter are in league with the Vistani - so maybe Lady Wachter decrees that Vistani are now allowed to come into town, they make trouble, and the PC's either get involved and more murders ensue, or the PC's leave. If they kill Lady Wachter, the Vistani can step up their trouble-making, and even if no-one knows the PC's are behind the murders, as DM you can certainly justify an escalation of hostilities in the town which might drive the PC's into thinking about their 'end game' for the town, and/or leaving. By all means the Martikovs might be crazy enough to want to be in charge, or the PC's could try and convince them, but that's another opportunity to complicate things based purely on the actions of the PC's - unless the PC's actively support such a move, it should create more problems in town.

If they leave town and don't go to the castle (have they got all the items yet? any left to get that don't involve the castle), maybe Strahd ambushes them and throws a fireball or two from range, setting a large group of minions on them so he can hang back and keep pummeling them - conveniently, the escape route leads to the castle... That's Strahd moving from working behind the scenes, to 'in their face'.
 
Last edited:

hastur_nz

First Post
This may be a "you know your players better than we do" question, particularly since they're my family, [...]
Am I playing too much with fire going down this path, or are the stakes low enough and the situation manageable enough that it's worth it for the fun it could create?
What's done is done, best to move forward IMO. Who knows, maybe your ten year old didn't really understand Strahd's offer, maybe he thought he could rule as the 'good guy', whereas Strahd is looking (but only half-arsed) for someone to be the next BBEG. It's a complicated conversation, best done at the time or not done at all.

Setting up your youngest, to be tempted into playing the role of the "PC turned evil" sounds like exactly the kind of behaviour we *don't* want to encourage in new players - it's something even seasoned veterans don't always want to get into. Or even if he plays the good guy straight, you are tempting him to set up a situation where Strahd (i.e. you, the DM) sets him up then screws him over (even if it's an NPC that is the victim, it's his fault and he'd rightly resent you for it) - again, something I think isn't a great starting place for new players, especially young ones.

I absolutely agree that encouraging new, and young, players to have "a degree of agency and power in the game" is crucial to their enjoyment. But you, and the other players, can encourage that in lots of other ways. D&D has loads of complicated rules, even 5e - the simple "what do you want to do" question, where you as DM help them achieve that, can go a long way towards encouraging creativity and buy-in to the idea that the 'story' is a collaborative one, not one where they are just a spectator that rolls a few dice every now and then.

So he wants to rule in Strahd's place? Maybe an NPC overheard, and so during the next session, that NPC makes an offer to help him - that's a genuine, good-aligned response, which doesn't set up any conflict except for the most basic one - players vs Strahd, with you as the neutral judge. There are plenty of NPCs in the adventure that could do that, depending on where you are in the story - even a simple commoner could help the PC find a better NPC to help. That's your chance to open the conversation again, see what your son comes up with, but do it in a genuine way where everyone can help him (you as the NPC's, and the other players too). If he's changed his mind now, so be it.
 
Last edited:

pukunui

Legend
[MENTION=6873909]texastoast[/MENTION]: Sounds like a tricky situation! I think you are right in that it is a case of knowing your players/family. I'm not sure I'd want to start my kids off with an adventure like Curse of Strahd myself, but then they're all under 12. I haven't really got anything more to add, but I agree with everything [MENTION=40592]hastur_nz[/MENTION] said above. Just one thought: Have you tried talking to your wife about it? If not, I'd recommend doing that. She might have some insights that we would not be able to provide.

[MENTION=54629]pukunui[/MENTION] The adventure has never made it clear why Strahd allows the Burgomasters to 'rule' their towns/villages - does he fear the collective capabilities of an organised town, or does he need someone to keep the 'common folk' in a nice central place for him to feed on? Answer that, and I think options become clearer.
I don't think he fears the burgomasters at all. I'd say he just regards them as his underlings, there to keep a semblance of order and normality. If Strahd allowed the people in his valley to descend into complete anarchy, not many of them would survive, which would have a negative impact on his ability to feed on them. Much like the robots in the Matrix, he needs to provide his food source with some kind of a "life" in order to keep it sustainable.

Lydia as a vampire spawn is a good idea, but keep that behind the scenes until the PC's see her in the castle - at most, they might find she's disappeared a few days later.
Sure.

Personally, I would let the PC's kill Lady Wachter, if they really want to, rather than beef her up just because they murdered the 'nice guy' burgomaster for no apparent / logical reason. Murderous PC's don't need escalating threats, they need genuine complications that make them consider if they really are doing the 'right thing', whatever that means (especially in Barovia).
I was thinking that having Lady Wachter summon a bigger devil would be a genuine complication, especially if they *don't* kill her off in the next in-game day or two. It makes sense to me that if Lady Wachter and her cult are allowed to entrench themselves in the town that they would seek to grow in power. One logical consequence of that would be to summon more (and perhaps more powerful) devils to aid them in dominating the townsfolk.

If you think that Strahd is really annoyed and wants the PC's to challenge him not just skulk around doing whatever they want, which sounds entirely reasonable, then I think stir things up, and not just from Strahd. Keep in mind that Srahd and Lady Wachter are in league with the Vistani - so maybe Lady Wachter decrees that Vistani are now allowed to come into town, they make trouble, and the PC's either get involved and more murders ensue, or the PC's leave. If they kill Lady Wachter, the Vistani can step up their trouble-making, and even if no-one knows the PC's are behind the murders, as DM you can certainly justify an escalation of hostilities in the town which might drive the PC's into thinking about their 'end game' for the town, and/or leaving. By all means the Martikovs might be crazy enough to want to be in charge, or the PC's could try and convince them, but that's another opportunity to complicate things based purely on the actions of the PC's - unless the PC's actively support such a move, it should create more problems in town.
I dunno. I can't really see Lady Wachter allowing the Vistani into town. She's a noble, for starters, and they're gypsy scum. She's also lawful-minded. She wants to rule the town with an iron fist, not let it descend into chaos and anarchy. That said, if the PCs do succeed in killing her, I can see there being a bit of a power vacuum in town for a while, and maybe the Vistani just decide to come in since there's now no one to say they can't, and that results in lots of mayhem and violence (with the Martikovs doing what little they can to mitigate it).

Strahd would probably find such a turn of events amusing for a while, and he and his spawn might indulge in a bit of a feeding frenzy as a result, but I think ultimately he would want to restore order to some degree, less the survival of his food source becomes unsustainable.

If they leave town and don't go to the castle (have they got all the items yet? any left to get that don't involve the castle) ...
They haven't yet got the tome from Lady Wachter's vault, and they need to reclaim the sunsword (which has randomly reappeared in Barovia at the Ivlis crossroads after the Vistani tried to remove it).

... maybe Strahd ambushes them and throws a fireball or two from range, setting a large group of minions on them so he can hang back and keep pummeling them - conveniently, the escape route leads to the castle... That's Strahd moving from working behind the scenes, to 'in their face'.
Yes, that is precisely what I was thinking re: my comment about having him confront them himself if they continue to take paths that don't lead towards the castle. I am fairly confident that they will do so at least one more time, as they still want to take the wedding dress back to the Abbot in Krezk so they can get him to resurrect Ismark for them.
 
Last edited:

Wepwawet

Explorer
- Cleansing the three ancient magical fanes (the Megaliths of St. Andral at Old Bonegrinder, the Menhirs of St. Markovia at the Ruins of Berez, and the Obelisk of St. Ecatarina at Saint's Hill-- what was called Lysaga Hill in Expedition) cuts off Strahd's additional power from the Land and I switch from the more powerful CR 17 Strahd statblock someone made here on EN World to the regular CR 15 statblock in the book.
In the other thread I also read several mentions to those fanes. What are those exactly? Where is Saint's Hill?

I like that idea. Expanding on the stone circle at Old Bonegrinder desecrated with children's teeth, I can do something at Berez's (haven't read much about that yet). And the third circle I'm thinking of placing it on the forest path that leads to Rictavio's tower, the path north of Svalich Road. Just because it makes an equilateral triangle and I like me some geometric order.



About the lost gem from the vineyard: What are you all planning on doing with it? Who has it and where?

I introduced black roses in my game, that only grow in Castle Ravenloft. Started with Strahd giving one to the Druid to make Ireena jealous (Strahd may be trying to seduce him and offer to make him the Barovian archdruid).
My third gem could be in the castle in the garden where these roses grow. In the catacombs or in the backyard of the castle, where it's always dark...

EDIT: Actually, the dream pastries are made with fruit! And my players haven't been to Old Bonegrinder yet. I can up the challenge there, and have the Night Hags use the third gem to grow fruit for their mince pies...
 
Last edited:


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
In the other thread I also read several mentions to those fanes. What are those exactly? Where is Saint's Hill?

I like that idea. Expanding on the stone circle at Old Bonegrinder desecrated with children's teeth, I can do something at Berez's (haven't read much about that yet). And the third circle I'm thinking of placing it on the forest path that leads to Rictavio's tower, the path north of Svalich Road. Just because it makes an equilateral triangle and I like me some geometric order.

There was another Ravenloft hardcover adventure that was written in 2006 for 3E called 'Expedition To Castle Ravenloft'. This was another attempt to expand the original I6 into a larger "campaign". To do this, the authors Bruce Cordell and James Wyatt created three magical fanes in the land, from which Strahd corrupted and took much of his magical power. In order to help defeat the vampire lord, the PCs could find each of these three fanes, kill the hag that protected it, and cleanse the fane to cut off Strahd's power from it (making him less powerful and easier to defeat later on.)

I liked that idea of giving the PCs something to do to make Strahd less powerful, so I incorporated the concept into Curse of Strahd. And it actually wasn't that difficult, because CoS had several creatures and locations written into it that worked as wider-range stand-ins for the three hags and fanes in Expedition. In Expedition, one of the three fanes was located just past the Crossroads on the path leading up towards the bridge across Tser Falls, called Lysaga Hill.

Valley Expedition.jpg

Long before Strahd, this hill was a profane site where an evil cult would make sacrifices. However, at some point past that a Saint Ecatarina came and cleansed the area, and built her monastery on the site. At some point following the saint's death the tower there fell, although the people of Barovia still revered it as a holy site. Eventually, however, a coven of witches (men and women from Barovia and the surrounding farmlands) took up the cult again on Lysaga Hill, and under the auspices of a green hag, Baba Zelenna, took to worshipping a demon called Chernovog.

Much of this information from Expedition about Lysaga Hill got reincorporated in future products-- Claudio Pozas' adventure in Dungeon Magazine called 'Fair Barovia!' that was mainly focused in Vallaki still had Lysaga Hill as a location (and instead of the hag Baba Zelenna, the villain there became a banshee witch named Patrina Velikovna). And then Chris Perkins took the stuff both Expedition and Fair Barovia and reincorporated it again-- for instance taking the name Lysaga and creating Baba Lysaga from it, and taking Patrina and her brother Kasimir's story from Fair Barovia! (which matches the story in CoS of he and the elves stoning his sister so that Strahd couldn't have her and it turning her into a banshee) but moving her from the hill to Strahd's crypt instead.

I had actually made plans two summers ago to start prepping an Expedition To Castle Ravenloft campaign for 5E (with additional plots from Fair Barovia! and other Ravenloft adventures sprinkled in) even prior to hearing the Curse of Strahd publishing announcement. And in my prep I kept the "consecrate the three fanes to reduce Strahd's power" as a major focus and pathway for the PCs to follow. When I then heard CoS was being made I ended up waiting on it, and then when it got released I read the CoS book and saw it doing a whole heap of the exact stuff I had intended to do. So I decided to use CoS as my foundation, and then peppered it in with additional plots and hooks from Expedition and Fair Barovia (that were not already reincorporated.)

One of these plots were the three fanes. But whereas Expedition had them at Lysaga Hill, the Ivlis Marsh (southeast of the village of Barovia), and the Tser Poll Encampment itself (because Madam Eva was in fact a hag in disguise)... I discovered that CoS had nicely put in a pair of locations with ancient standing stones (the Megaliths, and the Menhirs.) I decided that the easiest thing to do was treat those two locations as two of the fanes-- both of which coincidentally enough were being looked over by hags (Morgantha at Old Bonegrinder and Baba Lysaga at the ruins of Berez)-- and create a third standing stone location watched over by another hag. And since Expedition already included an old monastery ruin at Lysaga Hill that was the abode of a green hag named Baba Zelenna, I just added a standing stone to the location and voila! I had three magical "fanes" that were demarcated by standing stones, all three of which were guarded over by hags. And the fanes were guarded because they granted Strahd more of a connection to his Land and they needed protecting.

Now just for fun I also did a whole bunch of extra stuff to connect everything together. In CoS the church in Vallaki has the Bones of St. Andral, and in the crypts beneath the Castle there is the Thighbone of St. Markovia. And in Expedition, the ruins at Lysaga Hill were a former monastery built by a St. Ecatarina. So because St. Markovia also had an Abbey dedicated to her in Kresk, I decided to really play the "three saints" angle up by reincorporating all these things into the story and changing some names and such. St. Ecatarina was a young priestess from the Village of Barovia who grew up in the church there, and when she got older and with the blessing of the Morninglord, built a convent and arboretum at what would become known as Saint's Hill. When she disappeared and her convent tower destroyed several years later, the people of Barovia erected an Obelisk in her name at the Arboretum, renamed Barovia's church in her honor, and made her a Saint.

In Vallaki, I reincorporated the Monastery of the White Sun from the Fair Barovia! adventure (that uses Leo Dilisnya as a villain-- the guy who had Strahd struck down at the wedding and whose bones are currently protected in the lead-lined box in Lady Wachter's closet) and put that in Vallaki itself in place of the Church of St. Andral (renaming it the Monastery of St. Andral.) St. Andral was a famous wandering monk in service of the Morninglord, and who spent many of his days in quiet contemplation underneath the ley-lines of power that criss-crossed where the Megaliths eventually would be built (down the cliffs from Old Bonegrinder). As he got older the monks in Vallaki renamed the Monastery there in his honor, and upon his death the Megaliths were raised where he spent much of his time in prayer to the Morninglord and made him a Saint. And finally, St. Markovia remained much as has been written-- she was a young paladin born in the village of Berez and who grew up in the Abbey in Kresk. Her holy power became so great that the people said she could take on the Vampire Lord himself. When she returned to her home in Berez, Strahd sent a cadre of vampire spawn whom she smote easily. She then was convinced to march onto the Castle wherein she and Strahd fought mightily, but no one ever saw Markovia again (because he killed her and had her entombed in his crypts.) In her honor the people of the valley erected the Menhirs outside of her village of Berez (which Strahd eventually flooded it in a fit of pique), renamed the Abbey in her name, and sainted her as well.

So now in my game there are three famous saints of the Morninglord, all three have monuments erected in their honor (which just coincidentally are where the magical ley-lines of energy in the valley focus themselves), and the three churches in the three towns all bear their names.

Saint Ecatarina - cleric of the Morninglord
- the Obelisk of St. Ecatarina at Saint's Hill (watched over by Baba Zelenna)
- the Church of St. Ecatarina in the village of Barovia

Saint Andral - monk of the Morninglord
- the Megaliths of St. Andral at Old Bonegrider (watched over by Baba Morgantha)
- the Monastery of St. Andral in Vallaki

Saint Markovia - paladin of the Morninglord
- the Menhirs of St. Markovia at the Ruins of Berez (watched over by Baba Lysaga)
- the Abbey of St. Markovia in Kresk
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top