D&D 5E removing cantrips: what to give instead?

Paul Farquhar

Legend

• Feb 7, 2020

• #51

I think the point is, you couldn't just "replace X with Y". You would have to create individual new rules for all of those instances, plus a lot more that we haven't thought of.

My feeling is the best way to get rid of cantrips would be to use an earlier edition ruleset.

 

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DEFCON 1

Legend

Supporter

• Feb 7, 2020

• #52

Easiest way to reduce the number of cantrips in the game is to restrict the number of players in your game who are allowed to select a class that has cantrips.

Players can select as many barbarians, fighters, paladins, monks, rangers, and rogues they want... but there can only be a single player who can take a bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. Thus you have now reduced the amount of at-will magic that appears in your game.

 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens

Supporter

• Feb 7, 2020

• #53

Encounter planning also has an effect on the impact of cantrips, specifically damage cantrips. Those are ranged attacks for the most part, and a spell caster getting to use them every round is assuming, obviously, that he isn't in HtH. If you run more encounters with a number of monsters equal to or exceeding the number of PCs then that spellcaster will end up in HtH more often. Obviously this doesn't impact the melee caster who's spamming booming blade or green flame blade but I don't think those casters are the main issue for this thread.

The above doesn't address the impact of removing cantrips, but I do think it's important to think about in terms of what cantrips are used for in a lot of games and how often they can be used.

 

Olrox17

Hero

• Feb 7, 2020

• #54

I would probably give a Shillelagh-like class feature to full caster classes. As a bonus action, you can enchant a weapon, so it uses your spell casting ability for attack rolls and damage.

Damage type could be linked to class: psychic or thunder for bards, radiant or necrotic for clerics, fire, cold,acid, lightning or force for wizards and sorcerers. Subclass could also play a role, so for instance a tempest cleric would be allowed to enchant its weapons with thunder and lightning.

 

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lowkey13

Guest

• Feb 7, 2020

• #55

*Deleted by user*

 

Weiley31

Legend

• Feb 7, 2020

• #56

Harzel said:

There's something about a twig being the most powerful item on the list that seems ... off. But it would also be pretty funny. OMG, watch out - he's putting down the reliquary and going for the TWIG.

Click to expand...

Yes but the Twig is handicapped by it's Poison damage.

 

S

Stoutstien

lunk

• Feb 7, 2020

• #57

• give clerics minor prayers- work like cantrips but all have longer casting times
• make EB a class feature
• sorcerer would need something choas bolt cantrip?
• druids could get natural blessings same as cleric but all naturey
• bards cutting word is a class feature
• wizards can lose them and probably be just fine
• artificer would need mending + something to fill the void like bonus to damage done by adventuring gear + prof in attacks made with them.
• EK/AT could get the Scag cantrips lite as features.

 

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DemoMonkey

Hero

• Feb 7, 2020

• #58

Make Cantrips require the players Focus/Holy Symbol/Instrument etc. If they don't have it, it uses a 1st level (or higher) spell slot to cast.

That goes a long way towards one of the most common complaint of "Cantrips are so much better because you can't be disarmed while I have to lug around this big bow".

 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens

Supporter

• Feb 7, 2020

• #59

Yeah, no being able to disarm the mage mitigates for harsher treatment of mage prisoners too, so that might not always be a bonus for the mage in question.

 

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NotAYakk

Legend

• Feb 7, 2020

• #60

cbwjm said:

I just recalled an idea I had if I ever ran a 2e or basic game of DnD again: Basic wands and staves that allowed a ranged magical attack.

For 5e it might look something like the following:

Implement​	Range​	Damage​
Wand	120 feet	1d6 + spellcasting modifier force damage
Staff	60 feet	1d10 + spellcasting modifier force damage

This could also lead to granting extra attack to a magic-user allowing two attacks at level 5 when using an implement only. More powerful implements might have additional effects like a push or slow effect.

Click to expand...

But really, instead you could have implements let you cast cantrips.

A spellcaster could be proficient in up to (# of cantrips known) such implements.