D&D 5E Monks Suck

doctorbadwolf · Jul 31, 2020

CleverNickName said:
not a satisfying answer, but it's a fair one:

As the primary DM of my group, I disagree, but I’m fine with leaving it at that.

Minigiant · Jul 31, 2020

Asisreo said:
All of them? You can say that with authoritative proof, or is that your perception?

You are going to tell me there are monks (except kensei archers) who don't use Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike?

Asisreo · Jul 31, 2020

Minigiant said:
You are going to tell me there are monks (except kensei archers) who don't use Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike?

Yes. Me. I've said that I don't rely on those options from the beginning. In fact, I've played with two other monks up to level 10 and they never, not once, ever used stunning strike. They were both Open Hand, too.

Snarf Zagyg · Jul 31, 2020

Minigiant said:
You are going to tell me there are monks (except kensei archers) who don't use Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike?

That's often (but not always) Way of the Open Fist and Drunken Master and (usually) Shadow.

That's not Kensei, Sun Soul, Four Elements, or (necessarily) Long Death.

You've mentioned that you've seen three (3) monks in play. You can understand that perhaps you have not seen all possible play styles, right?

Eyes of Nine · Jul 31, 2020

I still stand by the fact Monks are more fun because you get to roll more d20s per combat (d20PR is the abbreviation for this metric btw); ie they allow the player to "do more" in combat. By that metric, Monks are top tier.

Esker · Jul 31, 2020

FrogReaver said:
Nope. I don’t fell like going through the whole thread for you.

I think it's fair to put the burden of providing evidence on the person making the accusation that people are moving the goalposts, don't you? I also don't find it to be obvious that this is happening. I don't think I've been doing it, as one of the people in this thread taking the position that monks are deficient. It may be that others have and I missed it, though...

Minigiant · Jul 31, 2020

Asisreo said:
Yes. Me. I've said that I don't rely on those options from the beginning. In fact, I've played with two other monks up to level 10 and they never, not once, ever used stunning strike. They were both Open Hand, too.

Well That's a shocker to me.

All 3 monks I've seen used it at least once.

Snarf Zagyg said:
That's often (but not always) Way of the Open Fist and Drunken Master and (usually) Shadow.

That's not Kensei, Sun Soul, Four Elements, or (necessarily) Long Death.

You've mentioned that you've seen three (3) monks in play. You can understand that perhaps you have not seen all possible play styles, right?

I know I didn't see every monk.
But based on discussion and campaign recaps I've seen and read, almost every monk player describes the same tactics.

FrogReaver · Jul 31, 2020

Mistwell said:
For me? You made the allegation.

Yes for you. You are asking me to review 100s of posts to find you a single one. Sorry but I have better things to do with my time.

FrogReaver · Jul 31, 2020

Esker said:
I think it's fair to put the burden of providing evidence on the person making the accusation that people are moving the goalposts, don't you? I also don't find it to be obvious that this is happening. I don't think I've been doing it, as one of the people in this thread taking the position that monks are deficient. It may be that others have and I missed it, though...

Depends on the scenario IMO. Asking someone to review hundreds of posts to find a single one for you because you thought someone’s perception was worth disputing doesn’t seem very productive to me. I don’t have a burden to do unproductive things.

FrogReaver · Jul 31, 2020

Esker said:
I think it's fair to put the burden of providing evidence on the person making the accusation that people are moving the goalposts, don't you? I also don't find it to be obvious that this is happening. I don't think I've been doing it, as one of the people in this thread taking the position that monks are deficient. It may be that others have and I missed it, though...

And thinking back without looking I think you are the one that did bring the wizard and monk or was it warlock and monk comparison up when I was discussing rogue/monk or fighter/monk And how stunning strike would likely be enough to push them overall ahead of those classes. Suddenly the conversation shifted to full casters doing large aoe control spells vs stunning strike monks and how monks control sucked in comparison.

Now I don’t think you brought that point up with any ill intent but it did end up sidelining there monkish rogue/fighter conversation.